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The Mentoring Room - Ask the Working Pros

This is a Public Topic geared towards first-time filmmakers. Professional members of The D-Word will come by and answer your questions about documentary filmmaking.

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Tony Comstock
Tue 8 Jul 2008Link

In reply to Sara Peak Convery's post on Mon 7 Jul 2008 :

When I used to do ariels we'd sometimes use a multidimensional bungie cord rig. You could cobble something together from home depot for lessthan $20.

Also you might simply try adding weight to yoru PD100. I've got a pair of well used PD100a camera. Great little camera, but so light they "twitch" a lot when handheld. Try mounting on a 20lbs plate and handhold. You'll be surprise how much the added intertia dampens the motion.

HTH.


Wolfgang Achtner
Tue 8 Jul 2008Link

Sara,

If the road is VERY bumpy, as in off-road conditions, (almost) any kind of rig will get some bumps.

It the conditions aren't that bad, the cheapest way to do this is to hold your arms attached close to your chest and hold the camera with your left hand beneath it and your right hand on the right side. If you've preset your focus and have pre-framed your shot, ideally NOT on maximum telephoto but as wide as possible (but not so wide that you'll be including the inside of car in the shot), and you concentrate and relax, without stiffening your arms, this grip will allow you to act as a natural shock absorber.

Usually, this method has worked just fine for me. Some bumps are "natural"; by this I mean that if it is clearly visible that there are bumps in the road, the occasional bump won't disturb the viewer because they will see that you are travelling on bumpy terrain.

As a matter of fact, all of those mounts – from the indicated web site – are quite rigid and would work well only on a normal, smooth, highway.

I'm quite confident that if you're not using a large camera for this shot – I normally use my small (second camera) in these cases – the indications I have given you should allow you to manage just fine, unless (as I pointed out above) you're travelling on really bumpy terrain.

Edited Tue 8 Jul 2008 by Wolfgang Achtner

Wolfgang Achtner
Tue 8 Jul 2008Link

Sara,

Of the two cameras you mentioned, I'd use the PD100 for this shot.

As I said, relaxation is the key. Breath slowly and hold the camera firmly but loosly. To get the idea, try holding your hands (without the camera) in the position I indicated and move them slowly up and down (as though they were attached to a big spring). You'll notice that you can move them smoothly and without shaking.

Do the same thing when you're holding the camera and you'll be able to absorb most bumps.

To check your shot, open the side viewfinder and tilt it upwards so you can control your shot just by glancing downwards, every now and then.

Once you've found the appropriate height (one that allows you to see the road without framing the dashboard, position your hands close to your chest (you don't want the muscles in your arms to tense up) , hold the camera firmly while keeping your hands loose so they will cushion the eventual bump and off you go!

Remember to stay relaxed because if you tense up you won't be able to cushion the camera and compensate for the bumps!

Edited Tue 8 Jul 2008 by Wolfgang Achtner

Timothy S. McCarty
Tue 8 Jul 2008Link

In reply to "Mark Barroso's post on Mon 7 Jul 2008:

Mark,
Apologies for the misunderstanding... I never mentioned using any gear in auto. Nor did I mean to imply one (editorial vs technical) was more important than the other. My point was, as ADW pointed out, for this first timer to focus his efforts first on honing his story. I did not mean said effort should come at the expense of technical mastery. That's a parallel and ongoing effort.

And as to your notion of "real," as you said so well, 'prior planning..." I always carry a point and shoot (I prefer the term 'Happy Snap') camera in my bag (Canon S50), it lives right next to my Mark IIn. I've used it many times when playing the "tourist" and needed to get the shot. I've yet to have an editor ask, "Did you shoot that with a 'real' camera?"

Lets agree he should 'practice, practice, practice' both!


Sara Peak Convery
Tue 8 Jul 2008Link

In reply to Wolfgang Achtner's post on Mon 7 Jul 2008 :

thanks for the detailed description--I was starting to think i would need to resort to that to get what i am looking for. I was hoping to figure out a way to run the camera while i was driving solo, but i think i will have more luck finding a driver than a perfectly smooth road.


Sara Peak Convery
Tue 8 Jul 2008Link

In reply to Tony Comstock's post on Mon 7 Jul 2008 16:23 CST :

I am curious about how you rig that--could you describe? Is there a person holding the rig or can it run remotely?


Sara Peak Convery
Tue 8 Jul 2008Link

I am also wondering about ways to rig for a car interview (presuming a relatively smooth road), in particular, trying to get a 2 shot, frontal view... or am i just dreaming? Does anyone have personal experience with any of the filmtools rigs mentioned above for this?

Edited Tue 8 Jul 2008 by Sara Peak Convery

Tony Comstock
Tue 8 Jul 2008Link

Oh. Solo. I didn't get that part.

The key is mass and dampening. The mass is provided by the weight of the camera and whatever weight you add. The dampening is a combo of bungies (like springs in a car) and the operator (sort of taking the shock absorber role.) Sort of a poor-mans fixed steadicam rig. I don't see it working solo

I think your best option is maffer clamps and magic arms, and short focal length. The wider the angle of view, the less noticiable the bouncing and shaking will be. Play around to find a wide to shoot yourself wide angle that doesn't look too distorted.

I don't think two angles is a pipe dream. In fact, it's probably a good idea (The reason I bought my pair of PD100a cameras was so that I could have two angles in a shoulder carryable kit.)


Mark Barroso
Tue 8 Jul 2008Link

Sara:
Depending on how important the two shot is for you, I would rent a three point suction rig and mount on the hood of the car, which can be seen on the same page Erica sent you to. It's a lot easier to use than it looks.
For inside or outside of the car, you should use a wide angle adapter – even fisheye lenses look good used from the passenger seat.


Tim:
I've seen too many docs where the filmmaker had a great story but killed it with poor technical skills. I don't know Mike, or you, so maybe my advice was unwarranted, but my first reaction to first timers (including myself) is to learn the camera before you start shooting. Point and shoot is an aesthetic that works for some situations, but not all. It would suck to be in one where that look won't work for you.


Timothy S. McCarty
Wed 9 Jul 2008Link

Hey Mark,
I'm sure there are just as many bad scripts attempted to be shot by really good camera ops (probably both of us have done it many times) who knew their gear and their stuff, and still couldn't save them. I'm sticking with honing both skills.

And I'll let ya know how many times I sneak out my 'happy snap' in lieu of my Mark II in Beijing...

As to knowing me, I'd at least bet we know some peeps in common 'round the NC area.


Sara Peak Convery
Wed 9 Jul 2008Link

Again-thanks all! will try out the suggestions...


Andrew David Watson
Thu 10 Jul 2008Link

okay okay, what i more so meant was not to worry about having the newest or best gear. For example, cant afford a shotgun mic? Figure out how to get the best sound with the on camera mic mix with the lav mics. Yes, you gotta know how to use your gear, but some people (and mike this has nothing to do with you) worry wayyyyy to much about having the latest camera and hottest gear. The best camera isnt going to help if a) your story sucks b) you have no idea how to use it.


Timothy S. McCarty
Sat 12 Jul 2008Link

agreed.


Marshall Burgtorf
Thu 17 Jul 2008Link

Our latest project is on violence in youth sports. I found a package that aired on Good Morning America last year while surfing Youtube. Does anyone know the best way to approach GMA about the use of their archival footage? My Producer spoke with our film commission and all they said was that we would not be able to afford it. I think she was talking about stock footage in general though. Any ideas?


Mark Barroso
Thu 17 Jul 2008Link

I think ABC charges $65 a second. GMA's video is with ABC in NY. Call 212-456-4040 and ask for archives. It's pretty straight forward, no inside deals.


Marshall Burgtorf
Thu 17 Jul 2008Link

Thanks! I give them a call and see what we can work out.


Amira Dughri
Sun 20 Jul 2008Link

Hi all!

I am so amazed by how helpful everyone is on this forum. I am just finishing up college and about to enter the world of documentaries and this feels like a friendly community to mull about in. Well, I'm posting because I'm working on my first 'real' docs. I have made a 5 minute doc in the past but that was more of an exercise. Now, I'm currently in post-production on a documentary (my final college endeavor) about one of the nation's top college magazines, Flux. I am the director and editor and was one of the camera crew. Anyway, we followed 40+ students, focusing on a handful of people, for apprx 3 months and shot apprx 150 hours of footage. I have only worked on short pieces with around 20 hours of footage. Now I've got 150 hours? Oh geez, this is a whole new ball game. I also have about 30 hours of interviews. I have done my research and read a lot on how people organize footage with scene boards and colored post-its and xml sheets. I even read Walter Murch's book on how he edited Cold Mountain using Final Cut Pro. I decided to log in Avid (which is unfamiliar to me but love how I can organize footage) and export the logs as PDFs for reference as I capture the footage in FCP. I've written a rough outline of all the footage and what I think are the main points so far. But I'm getting a bit overwhelmed with all the footage and the fact that I don't know how to use it to tell a story. I go to a journalism school where I've learned how to report the news. Now, I want to tell a more narrative story through video but don't know even how to begin developing characters and plot. I know story is the key. I know about the basic elements that make a story. But how do I apply those rules I learned in English class to video? Anyone with previous cinema verite documentaries or, well, anyone with any advice as I move into the process of a) logistically organizing the footage and b) using that footage to tell a story would be sooo very much appreciated.


Carlos Gomez
Sun 20 Jul 2008Link

I'm one of the least experienced people here Amira, but one thing that helps me when editing is to first think of what I want to say and then look for the footage I can say it with, instead of going the other way around, which would be something like asking yourself what can I say with all this footage?

Obviously you need to become very familiar with the footage first. Try to be open minded when you're watching it. Then forget about it, just "close your eyes" and "conjure up" your story. Then just try to tell it clearly with the footage you have. This can keep you from being overwhelmed and falling in love with footage you don't need.

As to narrative vs journalistic styles I'd say don't worry about that. Just make sure you know what you're trying to say and that you're saying it. You'll develop your own style over time.


Larry Vaughn
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

Back in 1984 or so I went to Guatemala with 3 other people and photographed some activities of the Guatemalan army and medical volunteers who traveled from the USA to give aid to the locals there. I stayed with the Guatemalan Army in Nebah, in the mountains, at the Sanidad Militar. At the time I was working for a newspaper but retained the rights to the photos. I still have a quantity of the 35mm Ektachrome slides which I can make available to people who might have an interest.


Larry Vaughn
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

In reply to Joe Moulins's post on Tue 24 Jun 2008 :

True, I have a MacBook bought 6/2007. Despite what Apple says, I have 3 gigs of ram in it, so you might as well max out the ram as well. The current ones will use 4 gigs. FCP works too, although Motion won't.


Larry Vaughn
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

In reply to Wolfgang Achtner's post on Fri 23 May 2008 :

I picked up a new Maxtor 300 gigabyte external hard drive with Firewire 400 and USB 2 ports from Office Max back in April for $79.00. It was not advertised but there it was on the shelf. Works fine with my MacBook.


Ramona Diaz
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

Hi Amira,

After you've logged your footage, come up with a ten best list, or twenty to start and then go down to ten. The ten best list should be comprised of the golden moments of your film – the "I can't believe we got that on film" moments, the moments that you still talk about after hours and months of filming. This is where you should really be disciplined because you can't really have a top fifty list, or forty or thirty, even twenty is pushing it. Then arrange those moments in order (depending on your narrative structure – linear, non linear etc) and the rest is filling the gaps to lead up to those moments in the most effective, dramatic, and magical way. And along the way you'll move things around and loose some moments too.

I know I'm making it sound easier that it seems. It's tough but this is one way to not get overwhelmed by your footage and to somehow get on top of it.


Lora Covrett
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

Is anyone working on a project at the Democratic National Convention?


Jo-Anne Velin
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

Ramona, that's a brilliantly simple way of explaining how to work backwards. Ten sounds right.


Erica Ginsberg
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

Lora, see the hidden section below for something I recently posted in the Classifieds (though I think I only posted in the Members-Only Classifieds). It's not my project – just passing the world along.

Show hidden content

Andrew David Watson
Tue 22 Jul 2008Link

Lora, I'll be shooting at the DNC for the IFC. We are set with crew but if i hear of anything i'll post it here. Denver is going to be a mighty interesting place come aug 25th!


Marilyn Perez
Tue 22 Jul 2008Link

Hello wonderful community.
It is great to connect again especially now since I find myself looking for a magician and am very behind schedule.
Most of all I need a senior EDITRIX OR EDITOR.

Pressing Onward in spite of setbacks "SMOKE SCREEN" the documentary is (like a virtual cigar) quite oceanic. In all of this there is a particular magic to articulate real or imagined separations between people in Cuba and people in the USA while at the same time revealing many similarities and shared interests.

The character of this isolated island of Cuba is seen not so much in the great moments, but in the small ones. Most folks know that in 1962 Kennedy declared a blockade against the island but he died tragically before he could reverse the embargo.

I've got over 70 hours of footage. In places I open aperture allowing for a transporting feeling through the people I meet especially farmers. I feel grateful to experience being under the radar of this 'evil eye' that wants to steal attention from Cuba and latch tight another notch in the harness of the mask that binds and blinds.

My "Papi" suggested to me that there is magic, mirth and mischief in those intricate swirling gossamer vapors appearing form the tip of his beloved cigar. My travels to Cuba go against the tide of many other Cubans. There are people who refuse to help me because this film is about Cuban cigars, community and family oceans apart. (Pedestrian protest rallies against smoke are not about to subside any time soon.)

This doc has the potential to unite the folks who abide in 'el Che' together with the exile embittered embargo backing folks like my sweet aunt!

Please help make this 'socially irreverent' and 'highly relevant' film find its audience now!

I have 2 versions one 42 minutes and another 50 minutes and both lack the "ability" to insist on being noticed by the vast audience that this topic deserves. Also if you know of any slight of hand tricks please don't hold back!

I am open to receiving help.
You are invited to participate at any level.
I thank you for your time.


Elizabeth A. Dillion-Stelling
Tue 22 Jul 2008Link

Any suggestions on where to look for a possible camera person to work with me on my project, I checked craigslist.com which someone suggested but nothing there. Any films schools in NJ you might recommend, otherwise I am running around with a new handcam scaring the beheba's out of all my friends trying practice on my own.


Robert Goodman
Tue 22 Jul 2008Link

contact the Philadelphia Film Office or the New Jersey Film Office for lists of camera operators.


Michael Beckelhimer
Sun 27 Jul 2008Link

Hello. I recently bought an XH-A1 and I'm looking for recommendations on microphones. I need a lav and a shotgun. I have been directing a documentary and using professional shooters and equipment, but on my next shoot I'd like to use my own equipment. Most of the audio will be interviews in controlled environments, with some interviews conducted as we walk through the city. My budget is flexible. I was thinking $500-$800 per mic. Also, someone in an earlier post mentioned the possibility of wireless mics experiencing interference or having problems in Europe. Is this a widespread problem? How can it be avoided? (I am filming in Russia.) Thanks!


Michael Jacoby
Tue 29 Jul 2008Link

Hi,

I'm a first time documentary filmmaker who just completed a feature doc called Ten More Good Years about the challenges lgbt elders face in America today. I've licensed the film to The Sundance Channel and Logo for five years giving up only national broadcast rights. I want very much to self distribute the film to universities, institutions, libraries, etc. I was hoping to get into New Day, but was denied. Is anyone aware of a good distribution solution? I am happy to do the work myself, but would like time to move on to my next project. If there is another co-op of filmmakers that distribute educationally I would love to know about it. Hell, if anyone knows of a decent distribution company that won't bend me over backwards and take 75% of the profits that would be good. I've had offers from several distribution outlets but the deals seem way to off point for me.

Any suggestions from seasoned veterans?

Best to you! Mike
www.tenmoregoodyears.com


Michael Wisniewski
Fri 1 Aug 2008Link

Hi, beginning editor here, getting into it with my rear end facing the wrong direction if you know what I mean. I would love to hear what techniques you use to organize large amounts of footage for the editing process, think 200+ hours of footage. And what other practical things do you do to help the editing process be more efficient?


Mark Barroso
Fri 1 Aug 2008Link

I found this tutorial from a Creative Cow moderator useful to me. If you want, I'll sell you my copy of Shane's DVD at half price. Whoops, is that allowed here? Email me at mbarroso@mindspring.com. There's also Ken Stone and others.


Mark Charles Berlin
Wed 6 Aug 2008Link

Hello.
Anyone from michigan that could tell me of some good film festivals in the state.


Doug Block
Wed 6 Aug 2008Link

Well, you just missed Michael Moore's Traverse City Film Festival ...


Chico Colvard
Wed 6 Aug 2008Link

hey michael,

i'm only 6-7 years into filmmaking... but my advice to you is to organize your footage by 1) characters or subjects in the film 2) then interviews of those people vs. verite footage of them 3) next i'd separate the footage by topic or themes that you/director have identified and 4) b-roll: driving footage – night/day... kentucky, new york, interior mom's house, exterior prison, etc... AND of course you'll have separate folders for your stock/archival footage/pics

hope this helps. good luck

In reply to Michael Wisniewski's post on Fri 1 Aug 2008 :


Erica Ginsberg
Thu 7 Aug 2008Link

Mark, if you like experimental film, Ann Arbor has a good fest. I would imagine there is also a festival in Detroit itself.


Mark Charles Berlin
Sat 9 Aug 2008Link

Thanks Doug and Erica,
I heard about the travese city film fest but ann arbor. I didn't know. Yes there is the Detroit-windsor internationa film Fest. If you ever get the chance. Thanks again gang.


Darla Bruno
Sat 9 Aug 2008Link

Been a crazy summer, but I'm back and need to get my footage (on PAL – sd) digitized/time codes . . . that's the first step. Then I can translate/edit.

I don't have Final Cut, (just PC/MovieMaker) but someone offered to put everything (using a PAL camera deck – if I buy or rent it) into FinalCut for me and give it back to me on a hard drive (and I might ask him to throw everything on DVD as well – if I can get that with time codes).

So I'd have to pay him around $400 to do this. It's 16 hours of footage, plus buy a hardrive from BestBuy ($100) and rent or buy the PAL camcorder.

Since I'm not prepared to get/buy a MAC/Final Cut right now, I think this might be my best option for having my footage digitized.

But I'll still need to give it to a translator with time codes, so I can prob. ask this guy to put it on VHS/DVD whatever for me. . . that way I can also watch it (on my PC) and log the footage.

Does this make sense/sound like a deal?

Thanks! (Please excuse semi-newbie language)


Doug Block
Sat 9 Aug 2008Link

If you're really looking to edit, I'd just take the plunge and get a Mac and FCP. You'd save $400 right off the bat by not having to pay this dude. Are you making a film or not?


Darla Bruno
Sun 10 Aug 2008Link

Wow, Doug, that is quite a plunge for me. But I appreciate the candor/simplicity of your answer. Thanks!


Christopher Wong
Sun 10 Aug 2008Link

darla, i really, really hope that you are not thinking about cutting your film (even the first version) on PC/Moviemaker... that would be disastrous for you in terms of wasted time and energy.

if you really can't afford to get FCP now, then the $400 arrangement sounds fair. to load 16 hours of DV tape takes about 2 days, and that's worth it. if you can get that person to get you DVDs of all the material (with timecode stamp) – perhaps for an extra $100-200? – then that also sounds reasonable.

but if there's ANY way that you can get your hands on a very cheap iMac or MacBook laptop ($1000 for cheapest model), you should definitely do so. and if you have a friend who can lend you a "trial" version of FCP – no, i'm not advocating piracy – then that might be a good way to see if FCP works for you. if you don't have such a "friend" available, email me and i might have a suggestion for you.


Gita Pullapilly
Sun 10 Aug 2008Link

Advice on showing the main characters in your film the final cut?
I have heard varying opinions...show them alone...show them the film at a festival (so they can see how the audience responds)....we are debating how to do this and would appreciate any advice. Thanks!


John Burgan
Sun 10 Aug 2008Link

Darla – for a DV project you can't go wrong with Final Cut Express which is cheaper than, yet fully compatible with its more powerful sibling.


Doug Block
Sun 10 Aug 2008Link

Gita, generally showing the film to your main characters before the public sees it is better and more considerate. They'll probably need the first screening just to absorb it. It's not an across-the-board rule, but if they're even somewhat exposed or vulnerable in the film it's good to let them have their own private reactions first.

Edited Sun 10 Aug 2008 by Doug Block

Wolfgang Achtner
Sun 10 Aug 2008Link

Hiya Gita,

Doug has given you good advice.

On the other hand, there is no simple answer to your question.

Many different factors may came into play. Just to mention one or two: what kind of story you've told, what kind of relationship you have with your subject, what role your subject has in the documentary, the way you've told their story, etc., etc.

In some cases I'd say it would be best NOT to show it to them before your film comes out (goes to a festival, airs on tv, is released in the theaters, on DVD, etc.), in others, there wouldn't be any valid reason not to show it to them privately.

Unless you give us some additional details about your film and your relationship with your main character, it's almost impossible to say what might be best or more appropriate in this particular case.

Edited Sun 10 Aug 2008 by Wolfgang Achtner

Roderick Taylor
Mon 11 Aug 2008Link

I work as a clinical counsellor for children and youth. As a volunteer project I help youth make their own documentary films. Our current film is about the perception of female body image and its correlation with eating disorders. For our b-roll, we added motion to images that we downloaded from the internet and scanned from magazines. These images are often advertisements or pictures from fashion magazines. In addition, we have included clips from movies and music videos as part of our b-roll. For example, a kid is talking about the stupidity and sexism in music videos while we show a clip from a 'Girlicious' video.

Question:

1) Is my use of these copyrighted images and sources of media legal seening how I am making an educational/research based film.

2)If I am allowed to use the aforementioned images in my film, am I allowed to alter them in any way. For example, I took a photo from the internet of a best buy advertisement which showed a skanky looking model. I used the image of the model as part of my b-roll but, in doing so, I used adobe after affects to delete part of the ad(words and other pictures}?


Paul Miil
Tue 12 Aug 2008Link

Is it possible to make a biography on a famous musician without their permission?

If so, can I use their name in the title?

I have intentions of distributing to Canada & USA.

I contacted their management and this was their reply--I removed their identity.

"xxxx is a very private person and isn't looking for this type of recognition.
In view of how xxxx would feel about the whole thing, we would not be allowed to license any music nor would the band be available for interviews."


Ramona Diaz
Tue 12 Aug 2008Link

Well you could argue that the musician is famous and therefore you can make this film about the public persona. BUT how can you make a film about a musician without access to his/her work – i.e. the music? If management and the band are unwilling to give you permission to use the music, you can't use it. What would be the point of the film?


Paul Miil
Tue 12 Aug 2008Link

So, simply because someone is famous I can make a doc about them without their permission?

Would I be able to show the inside of previous homes and schools that he mentioned in his books or is that too private? Where is the line?

They say he is a private person and yet he's a celebrity who has written several books with intimate details about his private life.


Christopher Wong
Tue 12 Aug 2008Link

paul, for an example of how to profile a musician without using ANY of their music, check out AJ Schnack's Kurt Cobain About a Son

however, the above doc did primarily utilize the artist's recorded tapes from an interview for a book. so, you will somehow have to access something which gives the artist a voice. i'm sure you'll think of something creative...


Neil Garrett
Tue 12 Aug 2008Link

Hi all,
I'm filming a low budget community project (uk) over the next couple of weeks some of which will involve shooting teenagers (sadly only with a camera) at a club they attend. As most of them will be under 16, this puts me on tricky ground with the release forms. I need parental consent, but it's unlikely any of the parents will come to the club during filming. I'm a bit nervous at the prospect of say, giving each kid a release form and self addressed envelope and relying on them to return them, and there's no way of knowing or finding out who'll be attending in advance.
Should I be worried about this or just go ahead and shoot? Do I have to get release forms even for kids who'll just be wallpaper?


Mark Barroso
Tue 12 Aug 2008Link

Neil:
Laws are country-specific, so us Yanks can't tell you squat. That said, I'll tell you my thoughts anyway (us Yanks are like that).

I'm assuming you can't contact parents ahead of time and are shooting kids who just happen to show up. If it were me, I would demand from the kids the phone number of their guardian and call them on the spot. After getting a verbal release from mum, I'd tell her you need to get all this in writing and that she will have to sign a release and get her address.

Know going into it that x percent of the kids you shoot will be unusable because their parent never followed up by mailing you the release.


Andrew David Watson
Wed 13 Aug 2008Link

What type of club is this? A chess club? A music Club? Will the kids be getting picked up by their parents at the end? Will you be interviewing the kids or will they just be background? Thats a tough situation.


Neil Garrett
Wed 13 Aug 2008Link

It's a computer game tournament organised by a local library. I think the age range is gonna be quite broad so I'm assuming a fair number of kids will be making their own way there and back. The sequence ain't gonna live or die on whether I get interviews with them, but it would be nice to get some reaction – only with kids who I've got cast iron consent to use though!

-And Mark, thanks for the advice about getting verbal releases. I think thats probably a good place to start!

Cheers


Roderick Taylor
Thu 14 Aug 2008Link

Hey Neil,

I'm not sure how it works in the UK, nor am I really sure how it works in my own country (Canada), as the lawyers like to debate these issues to the end of time. That said, my understanding of it is this. Anyone can film anything in a public forum. Where you may be sued is if you use that public footage in a manner that could be construed as defamation of character. For example, if I'm making a video about prostitution and I videotape women waiting for the bus or teenage males cruising in their cars on main street, and I use that footage as b-roll in my film, but in such a way that those persons are depicted as prostitutes or 'john's', it would be pretty good grounds for a defamation of character lawsuit laid against me. If I was actually filming prostitutes and 'john's' cruising around the red light area of my city, and I disguised their faces in final production, I'd be minimizing the chances of a lawsuit, as I've eliminated a great deal of possibility for someone's character to be defamated.

At the end of the day however, anyone can sue anyone for anything. All you have to do is file a writ in a civil court. So, there is no 100% protection from a law suit. What you can protect yourself from is the credibility of the plaintiff's lawsuit.

If you are filming people in a private setting, such as a library, you will likely need permission from the library to do so. The library will then probably put up a poster that warns people of the shooting and gives them the option to inform you if they don't want to be captured in your film.

As for the 16-year-olds and their consent. I think it depends on two factors; the age of majority in the UK, and wheter or not you have something like an Infants Act in the UK. The Infants Act in Canada allows counsellors to provide their services to children under the age of majority, without consent from their parents, provided that the counsellor considers the child to be old enough to fully understand the consequences of such services. Maybe the UK has a law like that but pertaining to the rights of a child to access any kind of service.

Those are just my thoughts

Take Care,


Neil Garrett
Fri 15 Aug 2008Link

Well just got back from the filming and wouldn't you know it, the God of Production was smiling down on me. All but one of the kids had parents drifting in and out, all perfectly happy to have the kiddywinks on camera. Even the mum who wasn't there gave verbal consent over the phone and has agreed to sign the release I'm sending her.

Now I just need to know whether I can use cutaways of the TV screen showing the computer games being played, or whether that breaches uk copyright. Anyone?


Mike Mossey
Fri 15 Aug 2008Link

Do most people start their own company as a documentary filmmaker or can you just do business as yourself?
Does anyone know of any resources that outline the steps for creating a small-scale Doc-film business?
I am new to this. Thanks.


Doug Block
Fri 15 Aug 2008Link

Mike, I did business as myself (using a DBA) for quite a while. Once I started raising significant money for my first doc I incorporated. I think that's a pretty common way to go.


Skyler Buffmeyer
Mon 18 Aug 2008Link

hi!
i am interested in making my own doc and was wondering if there was a good editing program out there that is somewhat reasonable in the price and is not to complicated.
thank you :)


Christopher Wong
Mon 18 Aug 2008Link

welcome skyler...

there are a few decent editing programs out there, but the most common one is Final Cut Pro (FCP). A cheaper version of the same thing is Final Cut Express (FCE). But both of these programs only work with a Mac. (Speaking of which, iMovie comes absolutely free of charge with the Mac, and is a very handy program for beginners.)

if you have a PC, there are a myriad of options, the most popular of which are Avid and Adobe Premiere. unless you are wanting to be a professional editor, Avid is probably too expensive for you and requires too much of a learning curve. Adobe Premiere is easy to learn and widely used but not so much by documentary filmmakers.

all in all, if you can afford it, get the cheapest new Mac you can get, and start editing with iMovie. after a month or so of practice, then shell out the few hundred bucks for FCE. when you have a project that's actually fit for broadcast, upgrade to FCP.


Joe Moulins
Mon 18 Aug 2008Link

It's been a long time since I checked, but doesn't Avid have a free version for Windows and Mac?

(three minute later)

I guess not

Edited Mon 18 Aug 2008 by Joe Moulins

Skyler Buffmeyer
Mon 18 Aug 2008Link

Hey! thanks for the advice about the editing thing :)
Sadly, I have a PC and the FCE looks realllly good.
I have a few more questions and will probably have a lot more in the future....lol.
I will be interviewing random people on the street AND set up interviews. I was wondering what kind of release forms I would need. Can I make one up myself? I would really rather not see a lawyer or anything like that.
Also, for the filming I will be using a camcorder (Canon ZR850). I was wondering what advice you would give for sound? Could I use a simple boom?
Thanks again, this website is a great resource and, I will definitely take advantage of it. :)


Robert Goodman
Mon 18 Aug 2008Link

Pinnacle Studio 12 is a good program. A lot of features for $79. Remember you don't need much. For 90 years every Hollywood feature film was edited with a viewer and scotch tape. It used to be that you'd find less than 10 dissolves and all the other edits would be cuts.

If you want to go up the scale – Sony's Vegas Video is a good program and then head to Adobe Premiere CS3. All available for far less than Avid and other professional programs.


Paul Kloeden
Mon 18 Aug 2008Link

A quick google search will lead you to a lot of release forms. A quick cut and paste will get you what you need. As for interviews, especially set up ones, I would be tempted to buy a cheap lapel mic – simple one with cable to your camcorder.


Jason Caminiti
Tue 19 Aug 2008Link

Skyler,

There are a number of PC editing programs. Last year when I dove back into Non-Linear Editing, I started using Adobe Premiere Elements. It is surprisingly good for a program that costs about $99. Elements is a pro-ish program dumbed down quite a bit for newbies. Though, it has some features that Premiere Pro doesn't have, like the ability to make a DVD with titles and all. Also, if you find yourself getting serious, the learning curve to Premiere Pro will be almost nothing. In fact, you will start to see many of the quirkyness that is somehow built into Elements dissapear, and it is a slick program.

I'm not a fan of the Pinnacle software at all. I have it just to import VHS and it seems amateurish.

(Ducks flames from Mac users)

Edited Tue 19 Aug 2008 by Jason Caminiti

Skyler Buffmeyer
Tue 19 Aug 2008Link

Hi again!
Thank you so much for the great feedback! It is so appreciated!!!! I just love this website :)
I have another question:
What recommendations would you make for finding subjects to be in your doc? I was thinking maybe flyers around town or an article in the newspaper...anymore tips?
Thank you again.


Robert Goodman
Tue 19 Aug 2008Link

it's not amateurish it's simple for amateurs on purpose.


Mark Barroso
Tue 19 Aug 2008Link

Depends on how random you want to be. If you want just anyone to comment on, say, how they feel about the latest fashions or the Iraq Occupation then just walk up to people on the street.

If you're looking for specific kinds of people, like folks with rare diseases or ex-cops who killed people in the line of duty then you can either advertise or talk to people who work with that population.


Jason Caminiti
Tue 19 Aug 2008Link

Robert, True, I guess I expected more from it. Adobe Premiere Elements seems really good considering. There are some really annoying quirks that I can't get past but otherwise it is great.

Skyler, You really didn't tell us what kind of documentary you were looking to make. If you are looking to just get experience, I'd recommend going to the local public access studio and volunteering. I take my camera when I go to an event in the city and make a 'show' out of it. You could throw in some interviews to get some experience there. Learning on the access facilities equipment is not only free, but it lets you see what you don't like. Which helps you zone in on what kind of equipment you need.


Evan Thomas
Tue 19 Aug 2008Link

So i want to film for a few hours at a Military Cemetary with a PD-170 + tripod. My project is lo / no budget and i'm self funded etc working on the film in my spare time.

In order to get permission to film i need to provide:

"Proof of adequate insurance coverage for any person participating in the film production or photography, as well as any spectator who may be at the site and might be injured as a result, directly or indirectly, of the filming or photography. Adequacy of coverage will by as determined by the organisation"

Clearly i don't have public liability insurance. Any way around this?


Jason Caminiti
Tue 19 Aug 2008Link

It's not like you are filming a movie there. If you weren't using a tripod, I'd say just go for it.

I'm in the US, and we have public access television here. People tell me all the time I am supposed to have filming permits and the like, but I just tell them it is for Public access and they seem to go away. I've never been thrown out of anywhere for filming with a lower end looking camera. Even with a tripod. I have had people ask me questions.

I think the liability stuff is more if you are going to be bring in crew and heavy equipment.

Call the groundskeeper and tell him what you are doing, and tell him you are just going to be filming with a small camera and tripod. I bet they'd be fine with that?

If not, bring a consumer grade camera and get the footage that way. A La Michael Moore.

BTW: I'm no lawyer, so you should check with a lawyer before taking any of my advice...

Edited Tue 19 Aug 2008 by Jason Caminiti

Skyler Buffmeyer
Wed 20 Aug 2008Link

Hey Everybody!
You are all such a huuuge help! Thanks!
I was wondering if anyone could give advice on getting archives (especially news-media related). Any good websites or procedures I need to go through to get good archives?
Thanks again,
Skyler

Edited Wed 20 Aug 2008 by Skyler Buffmeyer

John Burgan
Wed 20 Aug 2008Link

Archives – it depends a lot on what you plan to do with the material. More and more are online these days and you can search for footage which you can then license for use, whether for a web presentation or a film to be broadcast, whatever. It's not cheap though!

For instance check out the ITN Archive

BTW Skyler – please note that we ask all D-Worders to register with their full, real-world names, so please log in when you have a moment and update your profile. Thanks.


Skyler Buffmeyer
Wed 20 Aug 2008Link

Hey John!
Thanks so much for the advice.
I'm very sorry that I didn't put my full last name up.
I felt a little uncomftorable doing so considering, I just found this website a few days ago and I am underage.
I am so sorry if I have broken any rules.
If there are certain reasons that you need people to put up their last names please tell me and I will change it.
Again, I am very sorry if I have broken any rules and also, thanks so much for the advice about the archives.
:)
Skyler


Joe Moulins
Wed 20 Aug 2008Link

I wouldn't want my daughter sharing her full name on this board. No offense.

Let Skyler B be Skyler B.


Andrew David Watson
Wed 20 Aug 2008Link

Skyler – check out http://www.archive.org/index.php

Evan – The public access or "student film" lie can go a long way. Also, you could try to track down a local professional that might be willing to help you out and have them as a "co-producer." I would say go take a walk around there and see what the vibe is like and try to get a sense if you would even be bothered.


Doug Block
Wed 20 Aug 2008Link

Skyler, no worries, we'll let you remain a B given that you're bringing the mean age of The D-Word's membership down considerably. Just don't be ordering any drinks in the virtual bar.


Monica Williams
Thu 21 Aug 2008Link

Help!!

A potential next project has presented itself to me and it is a completely different style than the film I have been learning how to make for the last couple of years. I'm wondering if anyone can recommend ideas regarding the actual film or films to watch that might be in the same genre.

Here's the situation. I live in Detroit and am very fascinated with the "post-industrial" remnants of what was once a thriving city. There are hidden stories everywhere here and people are experimenting with radically creative avenues for social change. While helping tear down an abandoned house with one of his groups, I had a very long conversation with a man who was one of the Logistics officers for "Hands Across America," who was asked to teach courses on grassroots organizing at the University of Michigan and who is currently "stuck" in Detroit with legal matters. He took me to a miraculous place he helped build called the "Artists Village" in one of the worst neighborhoods you can imagine. He is very well-loved! He wants me to film some burial ceremonies he has organized with churches for the homeless and stillborn infants who are not given these rituals. Also to film some of the seeds he is planting here along with the activities of the Artists Village. The Artists Village is a huge collection of abandoned warehouses that have been painted with murals by the children in the neighborhood, guided by the artist in residence, whose artwork hangs everywhere. There is theater space where spoken word and community theater take place and there are huge community gardens. Possibilities are endless!

I guess this wasn't such a short post, but – How do I begin thinking about this? I would need to shoot some of these events ASAP and before he leaves. I have someone that can help shoot it, but I'm in need of creative direction as I'm currently working on a historical and philosophical film with archives and talking heads. What am I looking for – do I have to be in the film (aaagh!) Any help would be most appreciated :-)


John Burgan
Thu 21 Aug 2008Link

Don't want to dampen your enthusiasm, Monica, but isn't this simply a distraction from finishing "Knowing Evil"?


Christopher Wong
Thu 21 Aug 2008Link

sometimes the project you were "born to make" comes along at inopportune moments. like before you've finished the film you had already started... but if a project absolutely rings true in your heart and mind, then you don't really have a choice but to go forward with the new thing. (that was certainly the case with me.)

from what we've read before, it sounds like KNOWING EVIL might be able to wait. but only you know best... if you do go forward with this new project, make sure that you have a current story to tell, rather than simply rehashing the history of how the Artist's Village was created. as you said, there are hidden stories everywhere. go find 'em!

and no, it certainly doesn't sound like you have to be "in" the film.


Monica Williams
Thu 21 Aug 2008Link

In reply to John Burgan's post on Wed 20 Aug 2008 :

Well John, you may have me here – I'm falling for "another film." That said, I'm still committed to Knowing Evil and just finished my fundraising trailer. I know I'm a little googly eyed for this new project (it doesn't have all of the baggage of my current relationship:-) but I'm attempting to have some kind of either backup plan or footage in the works for when Knowing Evil is done. I've also thought of posting 5 minute stories like this on my website with a blog as a companion to Knowing Evil. This man's character represents a major them in the film and also symbolizes to me the combination of two of the philosophers in Knowing Evil.

Will I get in over my head if I were to just film some of the events this man is involved in for now, and to either use some of it for small 5 minute pieces and then try to make a film once Knowing Evil is finished? It also feels like a way to detach a little from Knowing Evil (in a healthy way) as I've been a bit monomaniacal with the whole process :-)


Monica Williams
Thu 21 Aug 2008Link

And thank you Chris for the great advice!


Skyler Buffmeyer
Thu 21 Aug 2008Link

Hey!
I am having trouble finding archives pertaining to the film I would like to make. I know this may seem very silly but, I am looking for videos/ video clips of things such as, hannah montana, high school musical, beauty pagents, make up commercials...... I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction and, if you could tell me more info on archives...can you get some free? if so, which ones can you use with no permission or money? and anything else I might need to know.
Thanks!!!


Jason Caminiti
Thu 21 Aug 2008Link

Monica, not sure if I can help at all. I am finishing up a film that is about how a city is using the arts to bring life back to their downtown and their mills. A few resources that may, or may not help.

http://www.artinruins.com/
http://www.urbansmartgrowth.net/

Also, a couple docs.
These are along that vein.

End of Suburbia
Escape from Suburbia

There is one Erica mentioned to me that I lost the link for about an artists community in Texas. Erica?

Chris, where were you when I was starting my project. I could have used a theme like an artists group moving into the city to explore the growth.. oh well too late now...


Carlos Gomez
Thu 21 Aug 2008Link

Monica, Varda's "The Gleaners and I" comes to mind. Maybe post-industrial Detroit is a setting where the ideas you're examining in your current doc play out, and the artist village is one branch of a bigger story. You, like Agnes Varda, could be the unifying thread: a filmmaker making sense of the world she lives in, relating historical, social and psychological trends to the changing landscape of the city she inhabits.


Penelope Andrews
Thu 21 Aug 2008Link

Skyler B
try http://www.archive.org look for the prelinger collection, read about the copyright stuff with each clip.


Eli Brown
Thu 21 Aug 2008Link

Unfortunately, Skyler, Disney is pretty legal and protective of its media properties. If you're planning on making something that you won't distribute, I wouldn't worry about it (like a class project, for instance), but if the rest of the world will see it, it's a safe bet that they'll be unamused at its use should they find it. However, the policy of "Fair Use" (small description here – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use) does give you some latitude to use all of those things in the context of a work of "scholarship" which often includes documentary. If an interview you conduct with someone talks about one of those programs, you could probably get away with a very, very short clip of it (or stills). Depending on what your point of view is of these items, the companies behind the creation of the media may even be willing to give you limited use (if it serves their PR or goals). Fair Use is your best bet for using any of it, but as a rule you probably won't be able to use a lot. (Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, so for any fair use claims, it's always best to check with someone who knows legal matters a little bit better...)


Lucia Duncan
Thu 21 Aug 2008Link

Here's the website: www.thirdwardtx.com


Monica Williams
Fri 22 Aug 2008Link

Carlos – thanks for helping me make that connection between the two films and the possibility of their becoming one. And I've just put Gleaners and I in my Netflix queue.

Jason – Thanks for those sites and the offer of help. I've heard of the Suburbia movies you mentioned and I'm ordering them. Oakland county is one of the richest in the nation and it borders Detroit!


Carlos Gomez
Fri 22 Aug 2008Link

I wasn't exactly thinking they would become one but hey... glad it made any sense.


Evan Thomas
Fri 22 Aug 2008Link

I will soon be editing in FCP for the first time. I will be using shared macs at the local arts center so I will be trundling along every week with my external hard drive. I understand it needs to be FAT32 formatted. My interviews are all 40 – 60 mins and therefore each is larger than 4GB in its entirety. Do i have to digitise them in stages then? Any good tutorials about on this sort of thing?


Jason Osder
Fri 22 Aug 2008Link

Evan, actually it is recommended that you use “Mac OS Extended (Journaled)” for the drive formatting. There should be no problem with file size. Organization is the other big challenge. There has been a lot posted here on that lately. Plenty of good advice, including that each project is different. You may want to apply for full membership to the D-Word so that you can access the FCP topic.


Kristin Alexander
Fri 22 Aug 2008Link

As Jason said, organization is important! Be sure you understand your scratch disks, and how to point the material you capture to your external hard drive and save it there.


Jill Kelly
Sun 24 Aug 2008Link

hi, i'm ready to buy the panasonic p200a,I am going to be using it for educational and travel films.I have been going back and forth between the sony ex1 and the panasonic. I understand the p2 doesn't produce hd in full 1080 like the ex1, is this that important of a difference? I would like to have equipment i can grow into but is the hd that much of a selling feature when it comes to selling a film or for getting a broadcaster on side for funding? I will be working with premier pro cs3 as i have a pc.Will any of this set up hold me back once i get a project completed? It's such a hard decision! thanks for any help...


Monica Williams
Sun 24 Aug 2008Link

This may be a silly question, but I have a 10 minute trailer for Knowing Evil and would like to post it here for anyone to rip apart. I don't have all the rights to the archival images used so if I post it, will I get into legal trouble, would it be too public?

Edited Sun 24 Aug 2008 by Monica Williams

Christopher Wong
Sun 24 Aug 2008Link

you'll be fine, monica... go ahead and post it.


Doug Block
Sun 24 Aug 2008Link

Ditto. Go right ahead, Monica.


Doug Block
Sun 24 Aug 2008Link

Monica, why haven't you applied for full membership yet?


Monica Williams
Mon 25 Aug 2008Link

Great – Here is the 10 minute fundraising trailer for Knowing Evil! Any feedback will be most appreciated – but go easy on me :-) And Doug, I didn't think I was qualified yet as this is my first go round, but I'll apply now – Thanks!

http://8bliss.com/Temporary/KnowingEvil/KnowingEvil_Trailer.wmv


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