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The Mentoring Room - Ask the Working Pros

This is a Public Topic geared towards first-time filmmakers. Professional members of The D-Word will come by and answer your questions about documentary filmmaking.

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Christopher Wong
Wed 3 Oct 2007Link

Probably the only reasons for a "total newbie" to operate the camera herself would be if: 1) you can't find anyone to do it for you; 2) your access to the subject requires that you work alone; or 3) the very structure of your film depends upon your POV as cameraperson. Other than that, you are not going to be successful, especially in the tougher lighting situations you are talking about. That being said, even if you do have a camera operator on board, you should still get used to whatever camera you do buy -- do shoot practice scenes, and try to shadow an experienced filmmaker first.

Assuming that you are "doing" and "practicing", I heartily agree with others' suggestion to read Michael Rabiger's book. Definitely the best.

While much of the story can be found later on in the edit, you have to have SOME idea of why you are shooting this doc. (I'm sure you do, but you probably don't want to reveal all the details now.) It often helps to write out a short treatment or synopsis of what you envision for the film -- the process of writing sometimes fleshes out the WHY of your film.

Finally, watch a doc every day, and see which styles you appreciate and which ones fit more of the mood and tone you envision for your project. You might decide on the "direct cinema" style of the Maysles Brothers, or the "man behind camera" style of Ross McElwee, or (god forbid) the "pan 'n scan" style of Ken Burns...


Doug Block
Wed 3 Oct 2007Link

Yeah, God forbid your doc should be popular with the masses ;-)


Adrianne Anderson
Wed 3 Oct 2007Link

Hello, I've been working in the documentary field for two and a half years now, mainly editing and learning from others. At this point, I need to learn how to become a producer, starting with knowing the right way to fund my projects. Currently, I'm working on a single project (and the production 'company' has no plans to commit long-term as everyone is balancing other jobs). We're trying to decide whether to funnel the money we fundraise into a fiscal sponsor organization, or start our own LLC. My impression is that to get started, a fiscal sponsorhip makes more sense. There's no money required up front, and you have legal and accounting support in place already. Whereas it seems an LLC requires lots of Fed/State paperwork, filing fees, lawyers, and a licensing fee of $800 for the privilege of doing business in California! That is too much for us newbies to commit out of pocket right now.
My biggest concern is the after-math of fiscal sponsorship. What if you want to distribute your film, or try selling it at one of the big markets? What happens to any profits your film acquires? Are they sent back to the fiscal sponsor, and you can take them out for future productions? Or can you create a nonprofit after and then channel the funds out then? Or can you even sell the film, as many sponsors require the film remain 'noncommercial'? (Though I realize the term is ambiguous as many nonprofits sell their films to distributors).
Anyway by now it's clear I have lots of questions and would hugely appreciate any suggestions you have!! I have left messages with local fiscal sponsors, but am waiting for a returned call. Thought I would explore other resources as well, especially other filmmakers!


Christopher Wong
Wed 3 Oct 2007Link

adrianne,
as far as i know, fiscal sponsors are only involved to serve as a "pass-through" for donations and grants. you want to have a fiscal sponsor so that individuals can get tax-deductible receipts, and so that foundations have a non-profit organization to write a check to -- foundations almost never give money straight to individuals. the fiscal sponsor simply takes the money, subtracts about 5% for their own administrative costs, and passes the other 95% to you.

unless you have some other written arrangement that involves profit-sharing and distribution, there should be absolutely no restriction on what you can do with the film. good places to look into for fiscal sponsorship are: Women Make Movies, IDA, and Public Media Inc. These orgs are all specifically set up with a filmmaker in mind.

eventually, you can indeed set up an LLC too. yes, the startup costs are expensive but you can't open a business bank account without having some sort of corporation. and keeping track of business expenses mixed in with your own personal expenses gets real old real fast. good luck!


Robert Goodman
Thu 4 Oct 2007Link

I wish there was a right way to how to fund docs. There isn't. As to becoming a producer - just be organized and ask lots of questions. Most producers - fiction or nonfiction - are learning as they go because the landscape changes from week to week.


Katinka Kraft
Thu 4 Oct 2007Link

Thank you Ben for that tip! Anyone have any ideas about how to get images from 2000-2006 Worldcup. I am particularly looking for images of german soccer fans. How do media sources usually respond about offering images? What is the best way to approach them?
Thanks so much.
Katinka


Rhonda Moskowitz
Thu 4 Oct 2007Link Tag

You don't need to form an LLC to open a business bank account. You just need a DBA (Doing Business As) certificate from your local city or town hall, which costs about $35. Just give that to the bank. The account will have your name dba _____(name of company). Checks can be made out to the name of your company. Some banks offer free business accounts where you have a personal checking acount. (Oh, and if the name of your company has your last name in it, you don't even need to shell out the $35 for a dba certificate.) I've been looking into this recently.

Edited Fri 5 Oct 2007 by Rhonda Moskowitz

Darla Bruno
Sat 6 Oct 2007Link

Okay, I'm back. I read "shooting the doc", ordered the textbooks everyone recommends, watched some docs and have more coming, and tomorrow I'm going to shadow some doc filmmakers.

Basically, I have an idea, a location, interview subjects, and my research. What do I need now?

A budget? (And what if I have none?) A camera person? A classified ad?

I'll try to keep my questions simple here.

Edited Sat 6 Oct 2007 by Darla Bruno

John Burgan
Sat 6 Oct 2007Link

Practice? It's a good idea to make some small projects just for yourself to gain experience before you leap into a major doc.


Poppy Shmith
Sun 7 Oct 2007Link

Hi There,

I'd be grateful if someone could steer me in the right direction in deciding which camera to buy. I'm almost done studying doco, and really want to buy my own camera. We've been using the PD150 & 170 and a chunkier DVC Pro. I'm really comfortable using the PD, but uncertain about the lack of native 16:9. I know it's an enormous question, but which cameras would you recommend? Is it intergal to shoot 16:9? many thanks -
Poppy


Eli Brown
Sun 7 Oct 2007Link

As someone who actually bought a camera recently (an HVX200, for the record), it's a really difficult decision to make - especially if you're just starting out and (presumably) don't have a lot of capital to begin with. You may want to find local rental houses and see if you can look over their selection to see the pros and cons of the cameras that they offer. My knee jerk reaction to the 150 & 170 is that they're a bit dated technologically speaking these days. Sony's HDV offerings have usurped them in a lot of respects and gives a bit wider possibilities in terms of producing for future distribution. Canon, JVC, and others have some interesting models, and Sony has some HDV cameras that are much cheaper than a 150 or 170 and might be able to do what you need (or might not; hard to say without knowing more about your intent). Having used a 150 (6 years ago, now), I'd be a little hesitant about buying a unit that hasn't had any real upgrades in nearly half a decade. But that's the technologist in me talking.

From the strict "producer" point of view, I'd also note that "owning" a camera is actually not necessarily a great investment, largely since the minute you buy it, it loses value (and continues to do so) and also establishes a fair amount of risk (This changes if your project is one of those 200 days of shooting/personal travelogue type of projects, at which point, owning a camera is a far better deal). If you know that you're going to be getting the return on the investment (or don't mind thinking of it as a luxury expense), then that seems reasonable. Alternately, though, I might encourage you to think about renting for the first few projects - both to get a sense of what cameras/formats will work well with what you end up producing, as well as to limit your initial expenses in regards to starting out. Also, working without a camera can truly hone one's ability to know what to shoot (when you do finally rent the camera, for instance). Sometimes limitation is a great creativity booster. Hope some of that is helpful...


Christopher Wong
Mon 8 Oct 2007Link

poppy, if you want to stay in the SD realm, i really recommend the Panasonic DVX100A/B camera. shooting in 24p, the look from this camera so far exceeds that of the PD150/170 units. all of the functions are really well thought out and it's a camera that is tried and true in the doc world, especially among us D-worders. in addition, you should be able to find DVX100's at some really good prices now - probably around $2000-$2500 now. The B version is slightly better, but the A version is definitely good enough and will be significantly cheaper.

Edited Mon 8 Oct 2007 by Christopher Wong

Brian Boyko
Mon 8 Oct 2007Link

One quick question: for shooting a documentary, should I be going with 24p or 60i? 24p looks more film-like... but 60i looks "realer" - and considering that I'm making a documentary...

Complicating this fact is that I'm hoping to release in theatres, NTSC, and PAL regions.

Edited Mon 8 Oct 2007 by Brian Boyko

Christopher Wong
Mon 8 Oct 2007Link

brian,
by "realer", i think you really mean "amateurish". there are certainly times when 60i is preferable, but unless you are shooting something like "Cops" or "Jackass", where you want the feel of the piece to reflect the fact that you are not using pro camera ops, then I would shoot 24p. it's just as "real" and a whole lot more beautiful. there are numerous docs that have been shot well in 60i too, but they would have been just as good if not better in 24p. lastly, if you decide to go with 24p and you want to go to theatres eventually, shoot in 24pAdvanced mode (not "Standard" mode).


Steven Krasnopolsky
Mon 8 Oct 2007Link

One of my school assignments is to interview three different documentary filmmakers. If you would like to volunteer your help will be greatly appreciated. The interview should run by phone or in person. No e-mails or IM. You should allow me about 30-45 minutes of your time.
Thank you.


Poppy Shmith
Tue 9 Oct 2007Link

Thanks so much Eli and Christopher. Really good advice from both of you. I really appreciate your help. I am going to head down to my local camera shop to have a bit of a browse...


Leah Cameron
Wed 10 Oct 2007Link

Hi Everyone,

What a great community you have going. Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Leah Cameron. I just signed up and I had a big question, so I thought I'd jump right into the forum.

I'm currently directing my first doc and I received two small government grants for the project. We've begun shooting on DVCPro HD. Now I'm looking to secure a broadcaster and get further funding.

Two broadcasters have expressed interest in seeing footage, so I figure it's best to show them a trailer. While I've studied story structure, I'm not as familiar with the elements that make a good trailer. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Oh. I should also mention that the film is a personal point of view documentary. My father is learning to fly airplanes again after 40 years and I'm following him to understand the battle he faced with mental illness and his life-long love affair with flight. For as long as I can remember, he's been obsessed with flying, but he hasn't been able to fly.

A little backstory: He lost his father in a plane crash in the RAF when he was six and his fiance in a plane crash in his late 20s. He got his license in the early 60s to get over his fear, but soon suffered an emotional and mental breakdown because of the grief. He was rehabilitated, but because he was on medication, he was barred from flying.

Until now that is. Now 70 and drug-free, he's passed his medical and he's learning to fly again. For him I think this is a journey about feeling in control again. For me, it's an attempt to try to understand my father and what he went through.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thank you!

Leah


Tanya Coovadia
Wed 10 Oct 2007Link

Contract help, anyone?

Hi, all,

My embryonic production company has been approached to work on the pilot for a series that has attracted the attention of a television channel. Not having anticipated the need for a lawyer (and certainly not having the budget for it), we don't even know where to begin. Are there any sites that might contain information or templates or even some hints as to the types of items that are covered in a contract of this nature?

Thanks in advance.


Christopher Wong
Wed 10 Oct 2007Link

leah, sounds like an amazing project. and i think by your very description of it in your last posting, you already might have the structure for your trailer.

essentially, it could go like this:
1) Start out with some scene about your father preparing to fly again. This could be anything from reading a flight manual to laying out his flying clothes (whatever that might be) on the bed. This could be a strictly observational scene where the audience doesn't really know what's going on, but is intrigued; or you could put a VO underneath with your father talking about what flying means to him.
2) Cut to a still photo (or old 8mm film?) of either his father or his former fiancee. Using old newspaper clippings or something else (VO again), communicate the tragedy of what happened.
3) Cut to interview of Dad explaining medications he used to take (perhaps holding an old medicine bottle) and the details of his emotional breakdown
4) Close with shot of him walking towards an airplane (as if he were about to enter it for his first flight...) Fade to black.

Obviously, I have no idea what footage you have, so some of those suggestions might not be viable. But that kind of structure lays out the man, the history, what's at stake, and the drama -- all within a tidy 2-3 minutes.

If you're looking for theory into what makes a good trailer, hopefully someone else will jump in. (I know nothing about that.) Good luck and count yourself lucky to be shooting your first doc on DVCPro HD!


Doug Block
Thu 11 Oct 2007Link

Leah, you might want to check out D-Word member Fernanda Rossi's book Trailer Mechanics: A Guide to Making Your Documentary Fundraising Trailer


Leah Cameron
Thu 11 Oct 2007Link

Thanks Chris and Doug. It's always useful to get an outside perspective. And I'd like to check out Fernanda's book.

Your advice is really appreciated.

Leah


Leah Cameron
Thu 11 Oct 2007Link

And, Doug, at risk of turning this thread into a 51 Birch Street love-in, I wanted to express how much I liked your film. A friend sent it my way after hearing about my project. I couldn't get it out of my head for weeks. Seriously.


Doug Block
Thu 11 Oct 2007Link

Thanks, Leah. Appreciate that. I gave a talk to a documentary class last night about personal docmaking and it really gave me the chance to think through some of my beliefs about the genre. Maybe we can open up a special topic here about it.

By the way, you certainly would qualify for Member status here, so I recommend that you apply . You also should fill out your user profile more extensively.


Jamila Gaskins
Mon 15 Oct 2007Link

In reply to Megan Conkey's post on Sat 29 Sep 2007 :

Megan, I'm producing a documentary right now about AIDS and Women in America. Write me at jkgaskins@yahoo.com. I'll give you more details.


Doug Block
Mon 15 Oct 2007Link

Leah, I took my thoughts one step further and have started to list "ten rules" about personal docmaking on my blog . (Sorry for the double post, folks, but Enthusiasts can't see the Directing topic.)


Titania Veda
Thu 18 Oct 2007Link

Hi everyone,

Am a newbie and loving the D-word already =)
I had a question about finding stories. I am interested in working with refugees and immigrants but these are sensitive topics. And since I just moved to NY, I do not have an inside person who could get me great access to these people. I tried going through the non-profit organizations route but they are very protective and usually do not want to get involved.
Could you give me advice on how you would go about getting the great access that doco filmmakers seem to be able to get? Especially if you are not local?
Any advice would be appreciated.

T.


John Burgan
Thu 18 Oct 2007Link

Time and patience are the tools of the doc filmmaker. Journalists don't usually have much of the former, which is why they tend to parachute in, look for their "story" and disappear just as quickly.

Take for instance a doc filmmaker like Kim Longinotto: whether she's shooting in Japan, Iran or Africa, she usually collaborates with a local who knows about the culture & language. James Longley lived for two years in Iraq to make "Iraq in Fragments", he gained the trust of his subjects over the many months he spent with them. You need to find a way to spend time with refugees, maybe you can even offer them something in return - language skills, whatever. If they get to know you as a person rather than someone who just wants something quickly, doors will open.


Titania Veda
Thu 18 Oct 2007Link

Thanks for that John. I know what you mean. I love the way Kim makes her films. They are beautiful and intimate and subtle. Sometimes it is hard to know, do you bring your camera with you all the time, from the very first day so your subjects can be accustomed to it or do you hold off until they trust you?


Doug Block
Thu 18 Oct 2007Link

So, Ms. Veda, any particular reason why you changed your screen name to T?


Don Levine
Thu 18 Oct 2007Link

Ciao all from caput mundi-home of cinecittà. Dr. Don Levine


Doug Block
Thu 18 Oct 2007Link

Ciao, Don. We actually have another topic to say hi and introduce ourselves. Feel free to post any doc questions here.


Titania Veda
Fri 19 Oct 2007Link

I'm more a T and no one can pronounce it correctly to save their lives! Plus who can forget a letter of the alphabet =) Btw, Doug, are you doing another talk in NY anytime soon?


John Burgan
Fri 19 Oct 2007Link

I know a bank whereon the wild thyme blows, where oxlips and the nodding violets grows quite over-canopied with luscious woodbine, with sweet muck- roses, and with eglantine: there sleeps Titania some time of the night lull'd in these flowers with dances and delight


Doug Block
Fri 19 Oct 2007Link

Titanic (that's easier to pronounce), I'm speaking at the New School on Nov 19. Also doing a Q&A after a 51 Birch screening at the Rutgers Jewish Film Festival on Nov 4. Or else just come to Sheffield.


Titania Veda
Fri 19 Oct 2007Link

Well John, I see you have a poet in you just waiting to burst out =) I'm actually going to be one of the volunteers at Sheffield so I'll see you then Doug!

Quick question though, anyone ever had the dilemma of when to turn the camera on a subject? Some say you should do it from the first day so that they get used to it but other filmmakers disagree and say wait until they are comfortable with you and then bring the camera or just bring the camera but don't turn it on. Is there a right or wrong or just a judgement call?


Doug Block
Fri 19 Oct 2007Link

Great that you'll be there, Titania. Look forward to meeting you and let's try to carve out a bit of time to talk when you're off the clock. And now get your butt out of the Mentoring Room because you're a Member and don't need to be here to post questions.


John Burgan
Fri 19 Oct 2007Link

I'm a poet? W. Shakespeare don't know it...


Titania Veda
Fri 19 Oct 2007Link

where do members post their questions? I had posted a question about whether or not to bring the camera on the very first day of meeting subjects and when to turn it on? Should I post that elsewhere than the mentoring room?


Eli Brown
Fri 19 Oct 2007Link

I'd try creative topics>directing for that one...


Monica Williams
Wed 31 Oct 2007Link

Hello D-Word community,

I'm new to this and very excited to have found such a great resource. Here's my deal. I'm a first time filmmaker, I'm overwhelmed and I am looking for a co-director or co-applicant for some of the grants that I am applying for. I have a letter of support from my local PBS station and I'm considering a co-production with them - but I'm still unsure. I have adapted the book Evil in Modern Thought, by Susan Neiman into a documentary film. I have produced a wonderful interview with her and have a good idea of how the structure will fall together and I have a rough outline for the script. I used all of the money raised to produce the interview and I'm now starting the process of grant-writing, but many of the grants that fund my area of interest, require previous experience. I'm feeling very discouraged with fundraising and so much more is needed to finish making this dream of mine.

My website is www.knowingevil.com. This is an amazingly relevant and beautiful film. I will truly appreciate any advice I can get on finding a co-director or on finding help with fundraising and upping my chances for grants. I have clips to show that are quite good and will be on my website soon.

Thank you

Monica


Robert Goodman
Wed 31 Oct 2007Link

Monica - I would avoid complicating things by doing a co-pro with your local station. I looked at your website and I have some questions for you.

Why is this a film? What is your connection to the subject? How will you visualize a book of philosophy? Is this really a biopic?


Paul Hayes
Wed 31 Oct 2007Link

Hey everyone. I started reading through old posts in this thread, but thought it might be easier to just ask for the info I need. I am lookig to break into documentary filmmaking, and wanted recommendations for moderately priced equipment, in particular a digital video camera, computer and editing equipment. Thanks for any help you can provide. - Paul

Edited Wed 31 Oct 2007 by Paul Hayes

Niam Itani
Thu 1 Nov 2007Link

Paul, the first question would be how much are you willing to spend on the equipment? :)


Paul Hayes
Fri 2 Nov 2007Link

Well, I don't want to limit my options to what I can afford now. I'd rather get some price ranges from y'all, and then plan accordingly. No info yet on cameras, but so far people I have talked to have recommended going with Macs equipped with Final Cut Pro.

Edited Fri 2 Nov 2007 by Paul Hayes

Christopher Wong
Fri 2 Nov 2007Link

make sure you get a two-monitor setup. makes a big difference when editing...


Niam Itani
Fri 2 Nov 2007Link

In this part of the world we prefer PCs but, yes, Macs with Final Cut Pro are the trend where you are :)
You definitely need a two monitor set-up no matter what the system is.


Monica Williams
Fri 2 Nov 2007Link

Robert,

Thank you for your response. When I read the book I could see it visually. I had been entertaining the idea of a documentary film that would explore the work of Hannah Arendt and when I read Evil in Modern Thought and saw Neiman's interview with Bill Moyers' I had an aha moment and haven't quit obsessing since, as I was convinced that I could adapt this book as a documentary film (I wonder sometimes at my naivete!) I have succeeded in the writing and my proposal and treatment explain the techniques I want to use. The theme is centered on how 4 catastrophic events in western history have shaped the way we think about and approach the world, and is not a biopic. The Philosophers and their work surrounding the problem of evil will add to the structure, only as their work relates to the events i.e. Voltaire's coming of age novella Candide will be animated as he is naively headed to the Lisbon Earthquake of 1755 (which was the symbol for evil at this time period, as nothing else could kill so many people at once.) There are many engravings and paintings from this era. I have many more visuals but I don't want to take up this space! My connection to this subject is a long story - basically I've been concerned about the problem of evil in philosophy, most of my conscious life - without knowing that this was what I was concerned with until my last couple of years of college. I've since come to realize that most of us are, though we may not frame our concerns in this way and I want to connect an audience to the great philosophers and writers of the modern world as a way of validating our human experience against the overwhelming insanities of history.

Thank you Robert!


Robert Goodman
Fri 2 Nov 2007Link

You need to explain how this film plays on screen because to a professional it seems better suited to a dissertation or magazine article. and it's always necessary to explain your connection to the story so people understand why you are willing to spend the next 7 years of your life making this film.

Edited Fri 2 Nov 2007 by Robert Goodman

Peter Brauer
Fri 2 Nov 2007Link

A vote for adobe. In terms of editing systems there can be no doubt that final cut has become the standard. But if you are looking to save money PC editing is the way to go in my opinion. A comparably powered PC is normally half as much as its mac counter part. I use the adobe suite. This includes premier, after effects, photoshop, and encore. They all work well together and can create just as good a final product as final cut. In most ways premier and aftereffects are very similar. Premier just has a much more narrow group of users. This can be an issue when bringing in an outside editor. I can run premier perfectly well on a 575 dollar HP desk top I bought at best buy. Just make sure not to use windows vista, as it uses way to much of your computer's ram and slows everything do. Windows XP still works great.

As for cameras, I highly recommend the panasonic dvx100b. it creates beautiful images and is moderately priced. If this is beyond your range a lot of consumer cameras can do. I have seen stuff shot on 400 dollar cameras that looks just fine in a gritty lo-fi type of way. Just make sure to get a 3 CCD camera. Also Audio is really important, so make sure what even you get has the ability to control audio levels, take a mic input, and have a head phone jack. Any camera looks as good as the lighting allows it. Its just that better cameras look better in worse shooting conditions.


Monica Williams
Sat 3 Nov 2007Link

Thank you for the advice Robert. I think I do get ahead of myself when explaining it. It's basically a historical documentary, told through the lens of philosophy and the classical problem of evil. Susan Neiman is my star and I have 8 hours of footage already shot with her. I will be interviewing other literary and political analysts about the historical events that have shaped the world in order to find new perspectives. We will look at four major historical events that have had a lasting impact on modern social and political consciousness. I do have a strong structure - the trials of Adolf Eichmann will be used as we consider Auschwitz, the book Black Rain will narrate Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and Israeli and Arab writers will be interviewed from the Middle East as the film looks at the war of Good v. Evil that is raging today. As for my connection to the film, I'm convinced that Susan Neiman's book will soon be considered a classic and it has been called "the book for this world political hour." I'm very nervous for the world right now for various reasons and I'm committed to bringing her work to a wider audience. I have tons of other personal reasons.


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