The Mentoring Room - Ask the Working Pros

I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask,
but i am about to embark on my first doc. Heading to europe for 1 week
to research for subjects and to get footage for a marketing trailer so I
can go raise funds. 2 questions: 1) HD or DV? my doc colleagues say HD,
while my pocketbook says DV. 2)I have a dp i like and has tons of doc
experience both directing and shooting and who has an HD package, but he
is asking $2000 for a weeks kit rental (deferring his time costs), plus
I will need to fly and put him up for the week. For that kind of money
should I invest in my own camera, and either shoot myself or hire a
local? Need to decide asap and head is spinning. Thank you.

Initial gut feeling: It depends on your finances. Yes, the world is
moving in an HD direction and I sometimes regret not starting my
latest project on HD. But I've come to realize, through hard-won
experience, that it's damn difficult to make any money, to even make
back expenses, doing a doc and that the best way to lose the
smallest amount of money is to keep expenses as low as possible.
Business 101, but I had to learn the hard way. When I'm weighing an
expense, I ask myself how many DVDs I'm going to have to sell to pay
for that budget item. Helps keep me focused.

I just did what you're doing: go overseas to research a doc and
shoot material for a trailer. I hired someone local, based on a D-
Worder's recommendation, and it went well. I've taken my own DP on
long-distance shoots before, but that was when I had a much rosier
and naive view of doc finances. If you have footage already in the
can that matches the style you want to use, bring it and show it to
the local DP so he or she knows what you want. Others may advocate
bringing your own DP, and if you are Bill Gates's heir, I'd agree.
But if you're not, how many DVDs will you have to sell to pay for
the DP's package, airfare, lodging and per diem? Lots.

do you have shooting experience? Have you made other films? If not,
you are better off hiring someone to shoot for you. As for HD - what HD?
HDV - if so, don't bother. DVCPROHD? - perhaps you should buy a HVX200
for $10,0000 and pay someone on a deferred basis to shoot for you.
HDCAM/HDCAM SR? - This might be a great deal to gather very high
quality footage for a reel to raise money.

DV - the story had better be so damn good the market won't care 3-8
years from now that you shot it on a dead 4:3 tape format in a world
gone 4K high def in 16:9.

Thank you Steve and Robert, ideally I would shoot myself, but dont
trust my shooting skills just yet. I am waiting to hear back from a
production manager oversees to see what is available on the local
front. But I am just torn between comfortably knowing that my DP is
onboard with what I are trying to accomplish and that I know the
footage will be good, especially for a marketing piece, and spending
too much to the point where I set a high priced precedent before I
even get any funding. The DP has a full HVX package, but not sure how
HVX can handle a full day of shooting as I think the drive and cards
he has can only accommodate up to 3 1/2 hours of shooting. You really
think HDV isnt worth it? As an aside, I was offered a free DVX 100b
for the week, but again, there is that DV vs HD question. Steven, Out
of curiosity, how much did you end up spending for your recent trip/
shoot?

DP in Tokyo was $1900 for three half days, I believe. My records
aren't in front of me. The rest was airfare, lodging, meals, the
regular travel expenses. I agree with Robert that if you can do HD,
do HD. Have you priced out the difference?

2000 for a week's rental of an HVX200 is way too high.
Any rental house in NY or LA would rent it to you for 900 for a week.

Sorry if I made it sound as if it was just camera rental. It was not
just the camera, but a two-man crew with audio and lights package
and a vehicle. Still wish I could have done better, but I didn't
know the language or have any contacts besides the crew recommended
by a D-Worder.

Thank you both again. I am rethinking my plan as this will be my first
trip of what I deem to be at least 1 or 2 more in depth ones. And
being my first time as a director, I will try to coordinate a local dp
with an HD package to be on standby out there, and save myself the
cash for when I know exactly what I need. Rather than having a pricey
dp the whole week that I will be anxious about getting my money's
worth from. In the meantime I was thinking about purchasing the new
Canon HV20 HDV (for about 1K) to bring with me as a 'back-up' for
research, which I hope will relieve that 'wish I had my camera'
feeling on the days that I am dp-less, realizing it wont be the best
for the major interviews as it is only 1 CMOS, but could be great for
some research and filler shots that I wont require matching. Does
that sound like a good plan in your professional opinions?

Alisa: Robert is the camera expert. I'd listen seriously to anything
he says.

Hi, I'm looking for any and all advice about getting practical advice
& experience making docs. I've got 9 years experience as a journalist
(am in London now) and while I'm a total beginner as far as docs go,
I'd rather just get thrown in at the deep end rather than take a
course (is a course going to tell me that I'd love or hate this kind
of work? I think not.) Any thoughts would be most welcome. Thanks!

J, with your background in journalism, you have a big head start.
Might help to read a good book in the basics of documentary
storytelling, so you begin thinking about telling stories in images
and sounds instead of just words. Directing the Documentary by
Michael Rabinger is considered one of the best:

<http://www.amazon.com/Directing-Documentary-Fourth-Michael-
Rabiger/dp/0240806085>

Would do you some good to read the conferences here, too.

Genius, thank you very much! Jennifer

Genius, yes. Glad someone finally noticed ;-)

Hi,
I'm making a documentary film about an accordian festival and i've
contacted the co-ordinator about permission to film....do i need to
get permission from every individual who will be in attendance at
the festival or is there some sort of blanket permission form for
everything that i can get the organizer to sign?


it's basically just entirely DIY/Indie doc so what else should i be
aware of when making it? tips and tricks would help!

Thanks in advance!

Assuming it's in a private location, post large signs at the entrance
(with the organiser's permission) stating that the festival is being
filmed for a documentary, not forgetting your company name & contact
details. Wording should include something like "Entrants consent to
being filmed and recorded by (****company name) for possible inclusion
in the documentary film (**** title)".

If in any doubt, consult a lawyer (especially if you're in the US)

I just watched part of your trailer. It looks very interesting. I
would like to see more. For some reason my laptop loads the first part
then seems to stop. It’s not just yours it happens all the time.
Pisses me off.
Are you selling the doc?

Ross, not every film is a festival film, but that doesn't mean it's
not a worthwhile film. Festivals are not the be all, end all of a
film's life. They have numerous reasons for accepting or not
accepting films -- length issues, other films on similar topics
playing the circuit at the same time as yours, not thinking the topic
is sexy enough, or simply not getting the film. Rather than waste
lots of dollars continuing to apply, target your festival strategy at
festivals that have shown films in the same vein as yours. Heartland
Film Festival comes to mind since their focus is on films about
positive life values.

Whether or not you get into festivals, it appears you have started to
build an audience for your film through your MySpace page and other
outreach. So think about other ways to generate screenings -
microcinemas, academic conferences, public libraries, birthing
classes at hospitals, etc. It's a lot of work to do on your own, so
you may want to re-read the D-Word Conference on Outreach with Robert
West from a few years back, but it seems like there is a definite
audience for your film out there. It just may not be a festival
audience.

Joe,

I'm not officially selling the film yet. But if you're interested I
could send you a screener copy. If you want to send me $5 for DVD
cover, disc and shipping, I'd love to send you a copy. I'd just ask
for your opinions on the film in return. Email me at:
ross@eraticate.com if you're interested. (That goes for anybody else
as well.)

Erica,

Thanks for the encouraging words. My first short film was accepted
into over 50% of the festivals I entered and won a few awards, so I
guess I was just expecting the same this time around. I'll look
into Heartland Festival and start doing more research on the
festivals I do enter. Being a film about pregnancy and parenthood,
I'm definitely planning on looking further into those avenues. I
actually had a nurse from the pregnancy ward at our local hospital
tell me they'd love to get a copy for their new parents to watch.
So I'm hoping to get it seen that way.

I was just having a bad day yesterday, so I needed to vent a
little. I plan to read more about alternate ways of distribution,
but I'd love to get more advice if anybody has any.

Thanks!

{erased by jenjajeh Thu, 21 Jun 2007 05:41:26 GMT}

Hmm, there's really no standard rate, Jennifer, given that it's
really unusual to have a doc financed beforehand. I'd ask why, if he
has full funding, you're not getting a full salary and he's asking you
to defer part. I'd be curious how much he's asking you to defer (as a
percentage of what he's paying, that is).

I'm wrapping up my first feature-length doc and am wondering if there
is any specific protocol about which credits are opening credits and
which are end credits andin what order for a non-union project.
Different films I've referenced seem to do different things.

-D

no protocol, dan. but usually "directed by comes first", copyright
comes last and most important to least important in between.

dori, pretty sure most tv news is produced by staffers. are you
looking to put together a few sample news stories for a reel?