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The Mentoring Room - Ask the Working Pros

This is a Public Topic geared towards first-time filmmakers. Professional members of The D-Word will come by and answer your questions about documentary filmmaking.

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Mikal Jakubal
Fri 20 Jun 2008Link

Another thing to consider is how the owner of the rights to the clips would feel about you using their material to raise money for your film. If it were some corporate newscast or promo film of some mega-bucks rock band, I'd say don't worry about it. <puts on flame-retardant suit> On the other hand, friends of mine—starving documentary filmmakers who risked life and limb to get dramatic footage—have had people cherry-pick their films to make fundraising trailers for their own films, sort of conveniently forgetting to mention to funders that they haven't shot an inch of tape themselves. It really sucks to find out that others are using your work for their fundraising while you yourself are living below the poverty line.

The point is that even if you intend to license the footage at market rates later, if you're using footage owned by a real person who is not a multi-millionaire or faceless corporation, you should have some arrangement with them. Yes, you can probably get away with it, but it's not ethical.


John Burgan
Sat 21 Jun 2008Link

Yes, but hardly relevant here as Monica's looking for historical images – see her original post & project website.


Mikal Jakubal
Sat 21 Jun 2008Link

Oops, I did read the original post, but forgot since it was a couple days ago and never got around to taking a look at the site.


Katinka Kraft
Sat 21 Jun 2008Link

Thank you Mark! I really appreciate your input. Sadly it was Canon who we sent camera to for repair and it worked for 3 months and then malfunctioned again.


Mark Barroso
Sat 21 Jun 2008Link

In reply to Katinka Kraft's post on Sat 21 Jun 2008 :

I sent my DVX out for repair once – for a similar problem, actually – and the shop did a lousy job (Repair Specialists in Tennessee). I found the Panasonic service rep for the entire southeast and he agreed with me, told me which shop I should REALLY send it to (on his dime) and chewed out the shop that failed to fix it properly. "Squeak! Squeak!" said the wheel.


grinner hester
Mon 23 Jun 2008Link

make a reel and get busy.
Take the first job offered and never stop looking for better paying gigs.
My first tv job paid a whopping 3.35 per hour. My next one paid 18k a year at 70 hour work weeks. I did not look at it as being exploited. The year before I was paying good money to learn this craft and now I was getting paid to learn much much more.
sweet.
With every addition to the family, I simply had to quit and get rehired at a different level elsewhere. At one point in my career, I moved my family to five states in as many years, salary climbing and dream-chasing. I worked my way into a six figure salary, a bald head and an ulcer or two.
I'm self employed now. Still love what I do. I pay bills by editing and shooting for clients and I still dream chase by making labor of love productions on a constant basis.
Don't stay in one place too long. It'll make ya feel secure.
I think my record for a staff gig was 2.5 years.


Monica Williams
Mon 23 Jun 2008Link

Thanks for the valuable advice Christopher, Mikal and John :) This takes some of the pressure off.


Eric Klein
Mon 23 Jun 2008Link

Alright: I'm a radio reporter, and I want to buy enough video gear to start making movies next week. These would be short docs for the internet. I want to spend less than $10,000 total on a camera, computer, and software.

I am forming a plan that includes the Canon HV20, an iBook (my apt is too small for a new desktop), and Final Cut. Then I figure I want a wireless lavaliere to supplement my existing "radio" gear. I have a zoom h4.

Keeping in mind that I'd love to upgrade my gear once I pay off this round of credit card debt, where's the best place to cut corners now?

If I'm very proud of a movie that has started life on youtube and then I want to submit it to festivals, what should I know?


Mark Barroso
Mon 23 Jun 2008Link

Eric:
Before you start making any more movies, there's a secret to filmmaking that we all had to learn the hard way, or in my case, pay thousands of dollars. But since you asked, I will tell you. You always should rghopdjjjjjjjjjjjjjj (chokes on pork rind, keels over dead).

Edited Mon 23 Jun 2008 by Mark Barroso

Joe Moulins
Mon 23 Jun 2008Link

Eric...Speaking as a radio reporter who started making movies a few years ago, I'd say you're on the right track. You can make the move for a lot less than $10,000. More like three thousand.

You could make do with Final Cut Express, rather than Pro. It's still an amazingly powerful app, and you'll get a discount when you upgrade to Pro.

Get a Macbook rather than a Macbook Pro, with the smallest drive and the bare minimum of RAM. Upgrade the RAM and hard drive yourself. You can Get 2gb of RAM and 300 GB internal storage for less than $300. Buy a 30 dollar external case for the extra hard drive, which is now your "traveling" media drive. The Macbook will run a 20 inch monitor. Get a couple of massive firewire drives, one for media and one for backup.

With all the money you save, splurge and buy a great microphone.

You'll still be using it long after the Macbook and the Canon camcorder are a memory.

Equipment-wise, this is a great time to be starting out.


Le Sheng Liu
Wed 25 Jun 2008Link

I recently started a blog for a feature documentary I want to develop on trends in American crime reporting as they relate to gender, racial, and economic discrimination. I would like to share my findings and insight with anyone who is doing research for a similar project or is just interested in the topic. Here is the main link.
http://covergirlsthedocumentary.blogspot.com/

You can either set up an RSS feed to your page/Google or have my postings sent to your email. And if you are a member of any of the following sites, the blog also appears there...
LiveJournal – http://syndicated.livejournal.com/covergirlsdoc/
Wordpress – http://leshengliu.wordpress.com/
Facebook – http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/notes.php?id=614752582&ref=wpb

Thank you and let me know if you have any questions!

lesliu@gmail.com


Tony Comstock
Wed 25 Jun 2008Link

In reply to Eric Klein's post on Mon 23 Jun 2008 :

Joe's pretty much nailed it, especailly about the sound gear. Still using the same mics I bought 12 years ago.

The only thing I'd add is that if you really have $10K, pick up some lights/stands/grip gadgets. A medium sized softbox, a flood fixture and focusable fixer will go a long way to doing good looking talking head interviews. And like sound gear, light gear lasts forever. I've got lights and stands going on 20 years old, still as good as the day I bought them.


Monica Williams
Wed 25 Jun 2008Link

Is anyone familiar with the use of European and American art (17th-20th century) in documentary film? If so, I am looking for any information that will be useful as I make preparations for a trip to Europe to gather images. I have talked with The Bridgeman Art Library (a provider of high-res images for a price) but I'm wondering if there are cheaper ways to get rights to use images from museums. Is something older than 200 years, passed its copyright? Do I still need permission to use these older images? Is it fairly easy to obtain permission or a minefield? Any information regarding this area of documentary will be highly valued.


John Burgan
Wed 25 Jun 2008Link Tag

I think you should be OK for old paintings, but you probably would need a license from the photographer/museum to use the photograph although the work of art itself is in the public domain.

If you have a few hours free, you might wish to browse through this link: http://www.law.harvard.edu/faculty/martin/art_law/image_rights.htm
Edited Wed 25 Jun 2008 by John Burgan

Jo-Anne Velin
Fri 27 Jun 2008Link

Monica, if you are shooting a painting hanging in a European museum, just contact their press person and explain the not for profit nature of, etc., if this is the case. Over here they might treat you like a regular journalist and allow you free or almost free use within your film, if the images are presented a certain way (I am guessing criteria will change from place to place). As you know, you'll need to get releases and whatnot, no matter what.

Stills: some museums have been digitising some of their collections, but not all.

If you want to share where you are going in Europe, great.

If to Berlin, and if to shoot specific pictures or objects, you're welcome to email me and I can phone around for you here to get a starter answer and contacts' names for you. (You'll also need to send me your film's story and provide any other amunition to help open doors).


Terri Hartley
Sat 28 Jun 2008Link

I've read through lots of the posts before making my own and I am curious. There have been a few people who shoot loads of footage and then seem to review it to find their story later. Stupid question, and I dont mean to sound like an ass, but dont you go in with a (if not the) story already in mind? I was half (and not the creative half) of a karaoke doc some years ago. I was the person getting releases signed, lining up the next interview, working the crowd, manning the equipment, and operating the camera. The vision of what that story would be was not mine, not my project. I shot what I was told to shoot.

Now I am shooting in Thailand where the story is whatever I find and want to tell. How common is it that the doc is shot in such a way that you just get as much footage in general as you can and decipher the story later? I like to have a plan but I would say that is working against me here.


Wolfgang Achtner
Sun 29 Jun 2008Link

Terri,

It can happen that you may start to shoot a story without a precise idea of where it's going. You haven't really explained what you're doing so it's hard to know how to help.

First of all, it may sound obvious but, as a general rule, it's not a good idea to try to tell more than one story at a time.

Secondly, don't expect that if you shoot a lot when you return home you'll automatically have a story. You might end up with a lot of (pretty) wallpaper and nothing else.

This much I can say: since the best stories are usually character driven, I would suggest that – while you are on location – you ought to try to find one or two subjects who will be the protagonists of your story.

Try to tell the the small story as a way of telling the bigger story; what I mean here is that by telling the in-depth the story of your subjects, you should be able to tell the bigger story or how whatever it is relates to them, influences their lives, etc.

If you want more – and more helpful – suggestions, you need to go into greater detail as to what you're doing, why you're doing it and what you expect to say. The answers to these questions might help you restrict your field of action and help you come up with a specific story idea. In any case, if you find one or two strong (and interesting) characters, you'll most likely be able to find out whatever story it is that you ought to be concentrating on.


Terri Hartley
Sun 29 Jun 2008Link

Thank you very much for your reply. Your comments are very helpful.

To give you more detail, there is a guy from the states who basically chucked everything he had stateside (penthouse apt, Lexus, very cushiony job in advertising) and now lives very much hand to mouth, operating a legit charity overseas. I am trying to get the story of what drives a person to make a decision like that. Turns out he is a super SUPER quirky individual, not in a nutcase way, but in a very funny way. I've interviewed his family stateside already and they also are very personable on camera. The other volunteers, also very camera friendly. My problem has been this guy. The MAIN GUY! HE goes all deer-in-the-headlights as soon as the camera comes out of the bag.

So far, I have shot around him but its do or die time for me. It is like he is pure gold...as long as the camera is not rolling. But he clams up and is like a sack of potatoes if he thinks I am recording. I am wondering how much of a story I might salvage if things continue this way. Would it be possible to build a story around an "absent" character if enough input is given by those in his immediate orbit? The main struggle this guy faces is how he can get more traffic to his website, which is his only source of funding for charity projects, and all the stuff he goes through in that struggle (such as a live webcast of a record breaking karaoke event coming up). Thank goodness I am not having to pitch this idea because my words dont do it justice really. But he is everything you would dream of in a central figure for character....all except for that teensy issue about being a garden stone when I'm rolling.

I do have a secondary storyline of sorts...not storyline so much as a profile of two young students he found in the streets and was able to get in to a school again after not being able to go for two years. That was supposed to be my "touching" serious segment against the main comedic line the rest of the doc dances with. I've been following their progress from the streets to the classroom and how they are adjusting.

So there is a tiny bit of it. Any other comments to help me deal with this obstacle would be greatly appreciated. I very much like the comment about telling the smaller story as a way of telling the bigger story. Gives me something to consider there.


Robert Goodman
Sun 29 Jun 2008Link

My suggestion is to follow the guy around long enough that you and the camera disappear. Don't interview him shoot him going through the course of his day. At first he will freak out but after a week or two you'll become background wallpaper. Get his cooperation and promise him that you'll protect him despite his fear of the camera.


Doug Block
Sun 29 Jun 2008Link

Terri, Wolfgang has great advice and I agree with Robert's suggestion, too. I would add that instead of thinking of an interview as something sit-down and formal, that you pop the occasional question to your subject as you're filmming the b-roll. Often doing something physical relaxes a subject, and it often makes for more interesting and intimate interviews.


Paul Kloeden
Sun 29 Jun 2008Link

Just remember the sound. Mike him up in the morning with a lapel mic and then just film around him. You'll be surprised at what he says when the camera (but not the mic) is pointing in a different direction. Think of sound and vision as potentially separate elements.

And don't forget to make sure that any red recording light on the camera is turned off.


Terri Hartley
Sun 29 Jun 2008Link

All comments are appreciated. I have tried following him, even sneaking the camera out while on the back of his motorbike as he was pulled over and talking to me over his shoulder. He turned his head and mid-sentence said "OH! That's on?!" and shut up. If I wasnt so aggravated, I would find that funny.

I will give all suggestions a shot (no pun intended). Thanks!


Tony Comstock
Sun 29 Jun 2008Link

Try sleeping with him. I hear it sometimes works.


Terri Hartley
Sun 29 Jun 2008Link

Edit: I will try all but Tony's suggestions. There is, fortunately or unfortunately, a limit to what I will do for my craft. ;)


Mark Barroso
Mon 30 Jun 2008Link

He's worried your camera/doc will reveal something he's hiding or running away from. Whether a pimple on his nose or a past as an ax murderer, something's going on in there. If you don't want to dig around and find out, ask him straight out what's the frickin' problem here, dude?

Edited Mon 30 Jun 2008 by Mark Barroso

Doug Block
Mon 30 Jun 2008Link

On camera, of course ;-)


Mark Barroso
Mon 30 Jun 2008Link

Of course.


Terri Hartley
Mon 30 Jun 2008Link

HA! I'll keep working on it. I have his tentative agreement not to fight this thing and hopefully, his personality won't take a vacation in the interim.


Theresa Tall
Tue 1 Jul 2008Link

I was told you can't buy an ibook, you have to buy a macbook pro becasue the ibook doesnt support final cut pro. that's what apple told me...i'd double check that though. good luck!


Theresa Tall
Tue 1 Jul 2008Link

Hey there –- still haven't combed through many of these posts, confused about order. I'm hoping someone can help. The series I want to create is a three part series – one of the parts involves just shooting one subject talking for about 20 muinutes in a setting like a park or an office. I dont have a camera, lighting kit, lavalier or anything. Since this part of the production is fairly straightforward (hardly any subject movement, same location, only one subject being shot) I was going to put out an ad to get some grad film student with gear or access to gear to shoot it with me present to work with the subject. I can buya new computer so the person I hire can store the footage (I will be working with multipple subjects/different shoots, so the footage will add up), is it reasonable for them to get an assciate producer credit if i am not paying them? i am not paying them becasue i dont have money but of course I'd liek to make this worth their while as well.
also, I just took an intensive guerrilla fillmmaking class (taight me some basics) where they said in Febriary 2008 the new US standard for all TVS is HD, all the networks have to switch over (so he says). So if I plan to air this on internet with the thought in the back of my mind that one day this may be aired on network or cable television and also screened on a big screen, should I put in the ad that the people who aplpy for this job MUST have a HD camera, and also do all HD cameras do a good job of being able to have great picture quiality on the web AND on tv/big screen? I know, newbie questions. please help, thanks!


Monica Williams
Wed 2 Jul 2008Link

Thank you to John and Jo-Anne :-)

Jo-Anne, I would really appreciate your offer of help as I want to come to Berlin and I'm not sure exactly where to go. I can send my one page treatment to you. I'm not sure how to email you, but you can email me through my website, www.knowingevil.com. Thanks again and talk to you soon.


Mike West
Sat 5 Jul 2008Link

Hey guys,

I'm about to embark on my first documentary, and I'd like to know what gear you guys use.... I was thinking of using an HVX, lavs and just practical available lighting as its more of an urban themed documentary.

Am I missing anything?


Andrew David Watson
Sun 6 Jul 2008Link

A good shotgun mic might help catch some of the action. The HVX isnt the best low light camera so depending on the shoot maybe consider some type of lighting. Tripod? Extra batteries? Camera Bag? Those can be important as well. With that said, dont worry to much about gear and focus on the story.


Mark Barroso
Sun 6 Jul 2008Link

Books, DVD's, websites for techy info, unless you're doing art for family and friends. Volunteer to shoot weddings, ballgames, rodeos to learn to work under pressure.

And yes, you're missing a lovely intern.


Timothy S. McCarty
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

I agree with ADW! Don't wory about technical stuff, they're just tools to tell your story. Mike, especially for your first doc, really focus on your story and what the slant is. Target audience? Who will you interview to give your doc credibility? Who is your "expert" on your subject? Think about the kinds of answers you want and then develop really open-ended questions to get those answers (and more!) in the on-camera interview...

Focus heavily on all aspects of pre-production; locations, setting up interviews, scheduling b-roll shoots when, where etc... By doing all of this pre-production, you begin to establish your technical requirements, i.e. that the HVX isn't the best low light camera, 30p or 24p? That I'm gonna needs lights, a boom mic if I've got multiple folks talking during interviews, or, I need a lav mic, or a wireless mic system etc...

As I tell my high school and college video students, there's no such thing as too much planning! Good luck!


Mark Barroso
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

Yes. It's called the 6 P's: Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

That includes learning the technical stuff. I disagree with you, Tim. Real filmmakers don't use the Auto-everything setting, just as real photographers don't use point and shoot cameras. To use your analogy, anyone can buy tools, but a true craftsman learns how to use them from a master – in person or from books/DVDs. It can save you a lot of time and frustration.

Practice, practice, practice.


Sara Peak Convery
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link Tag

I would like advice about mounting a camera inside a moving car, for view through the front window. I was able to rig my tripod in the passenger seat, which worked fine as long as the road I was driving on was smooth--not usually the case with rural highways, certainly not with gravel roads. Wondering if anyone has a good suggestion for 'shock absorbers' for the camera. I have tried this with a PD100 and VX2000. I tried handheld but found there was more overall camera movement than I wanted though less 'jittery-ness'.

Edited Tue 8 Jul 2008 by Sara Peak Convery

Erica Ginsberg
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

Sara, have you thought of getting one of these


Tony Comstock
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

In reply to Sara Peak Convery's post on Mon 7 Jul 2008 :

When I used to do ariels we'd sometimes use a multidimensional bungie cord rig. You could cobble something together from home depot for lessthan $20.

Also you might simply try adding weight to yoru PD100. I've got a pair of well used PD100a camera. Great little camera, but so light they "twitch" a lot when handheld. Try mounting on a 20lbs plate and handhold. You'll be surprise how much the added intertia dampens the motion.

HTH.


Wolfgang Achtner
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

Sara,

If the road is VERY bumpy, as in off-road conditions, (almost) any kind of rig will get some bumps.

It the conditions aren't that bad, the cheapest way to do this is to hold your arms attached close to your chest and hold the camera with your left hand beneath it and your right hand on the right side. If you've preset your focus and have pre-framed your shot, ideally NOT on maximum telephoto but as wide as possible (but not so wide that you'll be including the inside of car in the shot), and you concentrate and relax, without stiffening your arms, this grip will allow you to act as a natural shock absorber.

Usually, this method has worked just fine for me. Some bumps are "natural"; by this I mean that if it is clearly visible that there are bumps in the road, the occasional bump won't disturb the viewer because they will see that you are travelling on bumpy terrain.

As a matter of fact, all of those mounts – from the indicated web site – are quite rigid and would work well only on a normal, smooth, highway.

I'm quite confident that if you're not using a large camera for this shot – I normally use my small (second camera) in these cases – the indications I have given you should allow you to manage just fine, unless (as I pointed out above) you're travelling on really bumpy terrain.

Edited Mon 7 Jul 2008 by Wolfgang Achtner

Wolfgang Achtner
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

Sara,

Of the two cameras you mentioned, I'd use the PD100 for this shot.

As I said, relaxation is the key. Breath slowly and hold the camera firmly but loosly. To get the idea, try holding your hands (without the camera) in the position I indicated and move them slowly up and down (as though they were attached to a big spring). You'll notice that you can move them smoothly and without shaking.

Do the same thing when you're holding the camera and you'll be able to absorb most bumps.

To check your shot, open the side viewfinder and tilt it upwards so you can control your shot just by glancing downwards, every now and then.

Once you've found the appropriate height (one that allows you to see the road without framing the dashboard, position your hands close to your chest (you don't want the muscles in your arms to tense up) , hold the camera firmly while keeping your hands loose so they will cushion the eventual bump and off you go!

Remember to stay relaxed because if you tense up you won't be able to cushion the camera and compensate for the bumps!

Edited Mon 7 Jul 2008 by Wolfgang Achtner

Timothy S. McCarty
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

In reply to "Mark Barroso's post on Mon 7 Jul 2008:

Mark,
Apologies for the misunderstanding... I never mentioned using any gear in auto. Nor did I mean to imply one (editorial vs technical) was more important than the other. My point was, as ADW pointed out, for this first timer to focus his efforts first on honing his story. I did not mean said effort should come at the expense of technical mastery. That's a parallel and ongoing effort.

And as to your notion of "real," as you said so well, 'prior planning..." I always carry a point and shoot (I prefer the term 'Happy Snap') camera in my bag (Canon S50), it lives right next to my Mark IIn. I've used it many times when playing the "tourist" and needed to get the shot. I've yet to have an editor ask, "Did you shoot that with a 'real' camera?"

Lets agree he should 'practice, practice, practice' both!


Sara Peak Convery
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

In reply to Wolfgang Achtner's post on Mon 7 Jul 2008 :

thanks for the detailed description--I was starting to think i would need to resort to that to get what i am looking for. I was hoping to figure out a way to run the camera while i was driving solo, but i think i will have more luck finding a driver than a perfectly smooth road.


Sara Peak Convery
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

In reply to Tony Comstock's post on Mon 7 Jul 2008 16:23 CST :

I am curious about how you rig that--could you describe? Is there a person holding the rig or can it run remotely?


Sara Peak Convery
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

I am also wondering about ways to rig for a car interview (presuming a relatively smooth road), in particular, trying to get a 2 shot, frontal view... or am i just dreaming? Does anyone have personal experience with any of the filmtools rigs mentioned above for this?

Edited Mon 7 Jul 2008 by Sara Peak Convery

Tony Comstock
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

Oh. Solo. I didn't get that part.

The key is mass and dampening. The mass is provided by the weight of the camera and whatever weight you add. The dampening is a combo of bungies (like springs in a car) and the operator (sort of taking the shock absorber role.) Sort of a poor-mans fixed steadicam rig. I don't see it working solo

I think your best option is maffer clamps and magic arms, and short focal length. The wider the angle of view, the less noticiable the bouncing and shaking will be. Play around to find a wide to shoot yourself wide angle that doesn't look too distorted.

I don't think two angles is a pipe dream. In fact, it's probably a good idea (The reason I bought my pair of PD100a cameras was so that I could have two angles in a shoulder carryable kit.)


Mark Barroso
Mon 7 Jul 2008Link

Sara:
Depending on how important the two shot is for you, I would rent a three point suction rig and mount on the hood of the car, which can be seen on the same page Erica sent you to. It's a lot easier to use than it looks.
For inside or outside of the car, you should use a wide angle adapter – even fisheye lenses look good used from the passenger seat.


Tim:
I've seen too many docs where the filmmaker had a great story but killed it with poor technical skills. I don't know Mike, or you, so maybe my advice was unwarranted, but my first reaction to first timers (including myself) is to learn the camera before you start shooting. Point and shoot is an aesthetic that works for some situations, but not all. It would suck to be in one where that look won't work for you.


Timothy S. McCarty
Tue 8 Jul 2008Link

Hey Mark,
I'm sure there are just as many bad scripts attempted to be shot by really good camera ops (probably both of us have done it many times) who knew their gear and their stuff, and still couldn't save them. I'm sticking with honing both skills.

And I'll let ya know how many times I sneak out my 'happy snap' in lieu of my Mark II in Beijing...

As to knowing me, I'd at least bet we know some peeps in common 'round the NC area.


Sara Peak Convery
Tue 8 Jul 2008Link

Again-thanks all! will try out the suggestions...


Andrew David Watson
Thu 10 Jul 2008Link

okay okay, what i more so meant was not to worry about having the newest or best gear. For example, cant afford a shotgun mic? Figure out how to get the best sound with the on camera mic mix with the lav mics. Yes, you gotta know how to use your gear, but some people (and mike this has nothing to do with you) worry wayyyyy to much about having the latest camera and hottest gear. The best camera isnt going to help if a) your story sucks b) you have no idea how to use it.


Timothy S. McCarty
Fri 11 Jul 2008Link

agreed.


Marshall Burgtorf
Wed 16 Jul 2008Link

Our latest project is on violence in youth sports. I found a package that aired on Good Morning America last year while surfing Youtube. Does anyone know the best way to approach GMA about the use of their archival footage? My Producer spoke with our film commission and all they said was that we would not be able to afford it. I think she was talking about stock footage in general though. Any ideas?


Mark Barroso
Wed 16 Jul 2008Link

I think ABC charges $65 a second. GMA's video is with ABC in NY. Call 212-456-4040 and ask for archives. It's pretty straight forward, no inside deals.


Marshall Burgtorf
Thu 17 Jul 2008Link

Thanks! I give them a call and see what we can work out.


Amira Dughri
Sat 19 Jul 2008Link

Hi all!

I am so amazed by how helpful everyone is on this forum. I am just finishing up college and about to enter the world of documentaries and this feels like a friendly community to mull about in. Well, I'm posting because I'm working on my first 'real' docs. I have made a 5 minute doc in the past but that was more of an exercise. Now, I'm currently in post-production on a documentary (my final college endeavor) about one of the nation's top college magazines, Flux. I am the director and editor and was one of the camera crew. Anyway, we followed 40+ students, focusing on a handful of people, for apprx 3 months and shot apprx 150 hours of footage. I have only worked on short pieces with around 20 hours of footage. Now I've got 150 hours? Oh geez, this is a whole new ball game. I also have about 30 hours of interviews. I have done my research and read a lot on how people organize footage with scene boards and colored post-its and xml sheets. I even read Walter Murch's book on how he edited Cold Mountain using Final Cut Pro. I decided to log in Avid (which is unfamiliar to me but love how I can organize footage) and export the logs as PDFs for reference as I capture the footage in FCP. I've written a rough outline of all the footage and what I think are the main points so far. But I'm getting a bit overwhelmed with all the footage and the fact that I don't know how to use it to tell a story. I go to a journalism school where I've learned how to report the news. Now, I want to tell a more narrative story through video but don't know even how to begin developing characters and plot. I know story is the key. I know about the basic elements that make a story. But how do I apply those rules I learned in English class to video? Anyone with previous cinema verite documentaries or, well, anyone with any advice as I move into the process of a) logistically organizing the footage and b) using that footage to tell a story would be sooo very much appreciated.


Carlos Gomez
Sun 20 Jul 2008Link

I'm one of the least experienced people here Amira, but one thing that helps me when editing is to first think of what I want to say and then look for the footage I can say it with, instead of going the other way around, which would be something like asking yourself what can I say with all this footage?

Obviously you need to become very familiar with the footage first. Try to be open minded when you're watching it. Then forget about it, just "close your eyes" and "conjure up" your story. Then just try to tell it clearly with the footage you have. This can keep you from being overwhelmed and falling in love with footage you don't need.

As to narrative vs journalistic styles I'd say don't worry about that. Just make sure you know what you're trying to say and that you're saying it. You'll develop your own style over time.


Larry Vaughn
Sun 20 Jul 2008Link

Back in 1984 or so I went to Guatemala with 3 other people and photographed some activities of the Guatemalan army and medical volunteers who traveled from the USA to give aid to the locals there. I stayed with the Guatemalan Army in Nebah, in the mountains, at the Sanidad Militar. At the time I was working for a newspaper but retained the rights to the photos. I still have a quantity of the 35mm Ektachrome slides which I can make available to people who might have an interest.


Larry Vaughn
Sun 20 Jul 2008Link

In reply to Joe Moulins's post on Tue 24 Jun 2008 :

True, I have a MacBook bought 6/2007. Despite what Apple says, I have 3 gigs of ram in it, so you might as well max out the ram as well. The current ones will use 4 gigs. FCP works too, although Motion won't.


Larry Vaughn
Sun 20 Jul 2008Link

In reply to Wolfgang Achtner's post on Fri 23 May 2008 :

I picked up a new Maxtor 300 gigabyte external hard drive with Firewire 400 and USB 2 ports from Office Max back in April for $79.00. It was not advertised but there it was on the shelf. Works fine with my MacBook.


Ramona Diaz
Sun 20 Jul 2008Link

Hi Amira,

After you've logged your footage, come up with a ten best list, or twenty to start and then go down to ten. The ten best list should be comprised of the golden moments of your film – the "I can't believe we got that on film" moments, the moments that you still talk about after hours and months of filming. This is where you should really be disciplined because you can't really have a top fifty list, or forty or thirty, even twenty is pushing it. Then arrange those moments in order (depending on your narrative structure – linear, non linear etc) and the rest is filling the gaps to lead up to those moments in the most effective, dramatic, and magical way. And along the way you'll move things around and loose some moments too.

I know I'm making it sound easier that it seems. It's tough but this is one way to not get overwhelmed by your footage and to somehow get on top of it.


Lora Covrett
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

Is anyone working on a project at the Democratic National Convention?


Jo-Anne Velin
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

Ramona, that's a brilliantly simple way of explaining how to work backwards. Ten sounds right.


Erica Ginsberg
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

Lora, see the hidden section below for something I recently posted in the Classifieds (though I think I only posted in the Members-Only Classifieds). It's not my project – just passing the world along.

Show hidden content

Andrew David Watson
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

Lora, I'll be shooting at the DNC for the IFC. We are set with crew but if i hear of anything i'll post it here. Denver is going to be a mighty interesting place come aug 25th!


Marilyn Perez
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

Hello wonderful community.
It is great to connect again especially now since I find myself looking for a magician and am very behind schedule.
Most of all I need a senior EDITRIX OR EDITOR.

Pressing Onward in spite of setbacks "SMOKE SCREEN" the documentary is (like a virtual cigar) quite oceanic. In all of this there is a particular magic to articulate real or imagined separations between people in Cuba and people in the USA while at the same time revealing many similarities and shared interests.

The character of this isolated island of Cuba is seen not so much in the great moments, but in the small ones. Most folks know that in 1962 Kennedy declared a blockade against the island but he died tragically before he could reverse the embargo.

I've got over 70 hours of footage. In places I open aperture allowing for a transporting feeling through the people I meet especially farmers. I feel grateful to experience being under the radar of this 'evil eye' that wants to steal attention from Cuba and latch tight another notch in the harness of the mask that binds and blinds.

My "Papi" suggested to me that there is magic, mirth and mischief in those intricate swirling gossamer vapors appearing form the tip of his beloved cigar. My travels to Cuba go against the tide of many other Cubans. There are people who refuse to help me because this film is about Cuban cigars, community and family oceans apart. (Pedestrian protest rallies against smoke are not about to subside any time soon.)

This doc has the potential to unite the folks who abide in 'el Che' together with the exile embittered embargo backing folks like my sweet aunt!

Please help make this 'socially irreverent' and 'highly relevant' film find its audience now!

I have 2 versions one 42 minutes and another 50 minutes and both lack the "ability" to insist on being noticed by the vast audience that this topic deserves. Also if you know of any slight of hand tricks please don't hold back!

I am open to receiving help.
You are invited to participate at any level.
I thank you for your time.


Elizabeth A. Dillion-Stelling
Mon 21 Jul 2008Link

Any suggestions on where to look for a possible camera person to work with me on my project, I checked craigslist.com which someone suggested but nothing there. Any films schools in NJ you might recommend, otherwise I am running around with a new handcam scaring the beheba's out of all my friends trying practice on my own.


Robert Goodman
Tue 22 Jul 2008Link

contact the Philadelphia Film Office or the New Jersey Film Office for lists of camera operators.


Michael Beckelhimer
Sat 26 Jul 2008Link

Hello. I recently bought an XH-A1 and I'm looking for recommendations on microphones. I need a lav and a shotgun. I have been directing a documentary and using professional shooters and equipment, but on my next shoot I'd like to use my own equipment. Most of the audio will be interviews in controlled environments, with some interviews conducted as we walk through the city. My budget is flexible. I was thinking $500-$800 per mic. Also, someone in an earlier post mentioned the possibility of wireless mics experiencing interference or having problems in Europe. Is this a widespread problem? How can it be avoided? (I am filming in Russia.) Thanks!


Michael Jacoby
Mon 28 Jul 2008Link

Hi,

I'm a first time documentary filmmaker who just completed a feature doc called Ten More Good Years about the challenges lgbt elders face in America today. I've licensed the film to The Sundance Channel and Logo for five years giving up only national broadcast rights. I want very much to self distribute the film to universities, institutions, libraries, etc. I was hoping to get into New Day, but was denied. Is anyone aware of a good distribution solution? I am happy to do the work myself, but would like time to move on to my next project. If there is another co-op of filmmakers that distribute educationally I would love to know about it. Hell, if anyone knows of a decent distribution company that won't bend me over backwards and take 75% of the profits that would be good. I've had offers from several distribution outlets but the deals seem way to off point for me.

Any suggestions from seasoned veterans?

Best to you! Mike
www.tenmoregoodyears.com


Michael Wisniewski
Fri 1 Aug 2008Link

Hi, beginning editor here, getting into it with my rear end facing the wrong direction if you know what I mean. I would love to hear what techniques you use to organize large amounts of footage for the editing process, think 200+ hours of footage. And what other practical things do you do to help the editing process be more efficient?


Mark Barroso
Fri 1 Aug 2008Link

I found this tutorial from a Creative Cow moderator useful to me. If you want, I'll sell you my copy of Shane's DVD at half price. Whoops, is that allowed here? Email me at mbarroso@mindspring.com. There's also Ken Stone and others.


Mark Charles Berlin
Tue 5 Aug 2008Link

Hello.
Anyone from michigan that could tell me of some good film festivals in the state.


Doug Block
Wed 6 Aug 2008Link

Well, you just missed Michael Moore's Traverse City Film Festival ...


Chico Colvard
Wed 6 Aug 2008Link

hey michael,

i'm only 6-7 years into filmmaking... but my advice to you is to organize your footage by 1) characters or subjects in the film 2) then interviews of those people vs. verite footage of them 3) next i'd separate the footage by topic or themes that you/director have identified and 4) b-roll: driving footage – night/day... kentucky, new york, interior mom's house, exterior prison, etc... AND of course you'll have separate folders for your stock/archival footage/pics

hope this helps. good luck

In reply to Michael Wisniewski's post on Fri 1 Aug 2008 :


Erica Ginsberg
Wed 6 Aug 2008Link

Mark, if you like experimental film, Ann Arbor has a good fest. I would imagine there is also a festival in Detroit itself.


Mark Charles Berlin
Fri 8 Aug 2008Link

Thanks Doug and Erica,
I heard about the travese city film fest but ann arbor. I didn't know. Yes there is the Detroit-windsor internationa film Fest. If you ever get the chance. Thanks again gang.


Darla Bruno
Fri 8 Aug 2008Link

Been a crazy summer, but I'm back and need to get my footage (on PAL – sd) digitized/time codes . . . that's the first step. Then I can translate/edit.

I don't have Final Cut, (just PC/MovieMaker) but someone offered to put everything (using a PAL camera deck – if I buy or rent it) into FinalCut for me and give it back to me on a hard drive (and I might ask him to throw everything on DVD as well – if I can get that with time codes).

So I'd have to pay him around $400 to do this. It's 16 hours of footage, plus buy a hardrive from BestBuy ($100) and rent or buy the PAL camcorder.

Since I'm not prepared to get/buy a MAC/Final Cut right now, I think this might be my best option for having my footage digitized.

But I'll still need to give it to a translator with time codes, so I can prob. ask this guy to put it on VHS/DVD whatever for me. . . that way I can also watch it (on my PC) and log the footage.

Does this make sense/sound like a deal?

Thanks! (Please excuse semi-newbie language)


Doug Block
Sat 9 Aug 2008Link

If you're really looking to edit, I'd just take the plunge and get a Mac and FCP. You'd save $400 right off the bat by not having to pay this dude. Are you making a film or not?


Darla Bruno
Sat 9 Aug 2008Link

Wow, Doug, that is quite a plunge for me. But I appreciate the candor/simplicity of your answer. Thanks!


Christopher Wong
Sat 9 Aug 2008Link

darla, i really, really hope that you are not thinking about cutting your film (even the first version) on PC/Moviemaker... that would be disastrous for you in terms of wasted time and energy.

if you really can't afford to get FCP now, then the $400 arrangement sounds fair. to load 16 hours of DV tape takes about 2 days, and that's worth it. if you can get that person to get you DVDs of all the material (with timecode stamp) – perhaps for an extra $100-200? – then that also sounds reasonable.

but if there's ANY way that you can get your hands on a very cheap iMac or MacBook laptop ($1000 for cheapest model), you should definitely do so. and if you have a friend who can lend you a "trial" version of FCP – no, i'm not advocating piracy – then that might be a good way to see if FCP works for you. if you don't have such a "friend" available, email me and i might have a suggestion for you.


Gita Pullapilly
Sat 9 Aug 2008Link

Advice on showing the main characters in your film the final cut?
I have heard varying opinions...show them alone...show them the film at a festival (so they can see how the audience responds)....we are debating how to do this and would appreciate any advice. Thanks!


John Burgan
Sat 9 Aug 2008Link

Darla – for a DV project you can't go wrong with Final Cut Express which is cheaper than, yet fully compatible with its more powerful sibling.


Doug Block
Sat 9 Aug 2008Link

Gita, generally showing the film to your main characters before the public sees it is better and more considerate. They'll probably need the first screening just to absorb it. It's not an across-the-board rule, but if they're even somewhat exposed or vulnerable in the film it's good to let them have their own private reactions first.

Edited Sat 9 Aug 2008 by Doug Block

Wolfgang Achtner
Sun 10 Aug 2008Link

Hiya Gita,

Doug has given you good advice.

On the other hand, there is no simple answer to your question.

Many different factors may came into play. Just to mention one or two: what kind of story you've told, what kind of relationship you have with your subject, what role your subject has in the documentary, the way you've told their story, etc., etc.

In some cases I'd say it would be best NOT to show it to them before your film comes out (goes to a festival, airs on tv, is released in the theaters, on DVD, etc.), in others, there wouldn't be any valid reason not to show it to them privately.

Unless you give us some additional details about your film and your relationship with your main character, it's almost impossible to say what might be best or more appropriate in this particular case.

Edited Sun 10 Aug 2008 by Wolfgang Achtner

Roderick Taylor
Sun 10 Aug 2008Link

I work as a clinical counsellor for children and youth. As a volunteer project I help youth make their own documentary films. Our current film is about the perception of female body image and its correlation with eating disorders. For our b-roll, we added motion to images that we downloaded from the internet and scanned from magazines. These images are often advertisements or pictures from fashion magazines. In addition, we have included clips from movies and music videos as part of our b-roll. For example, a kid is talking about the stupidity and sexism in music videos while we show a clip from a 'Girlicious' video.

Question:

1) Is my use of these copyrighted images and sources of media legal seening how I am making an educational/research based film.

2)If I am allowed to use the aforementioned images in my film, am I allowed to alter them in any way. For example, I took a photo from the internet of a best buy advertisement which showed a skanky looking model. I used the image of the model as part of my b-roll but, in doing so, I used adobe after affects to delete part of the ad(words and other pictures}?


Paul Miil
Mon 11 Aug 2008Link

Is it possible to make a biography on a famous musician without their permission?

If so, can I use their name in the title?

I have intentions of distributing to Canada & USA.

I contacted their management and this was their reply--I removed their identity.

"xxxx is a very private person and isn't looking for this type of recognition.
In view of how xxxx would feel about the whole thing, we would not be allowed to license any music nor would the band be available for interviews."


Ramona Diaz
Mon 11 Aug 2008Link

Well you could argue that the musician is famous and therefore you can make this film about the public persona. BUT how can you make a film about a musician without access to his/her work – i.e. the music? If management and the band are unwilling to give you permission to use the music, you can't use it. What would be the point of the film?


Paul Miil
Mon 11 Aug 2008Link

So, simply because someone is famous I can make a doc about them without their permission?

Would I be able to show the inside of previous homes and schools that he mentioned in his books or is that too private? Where is the line?

They say he is a private person and yet he's a celebrity who has written several books with intimate details about his private life.


Christopher Wong
Mon 11 Aug 2008Link

paul, for an example of how to profile a musician without using ANY of their music, check out AJ Schnack's Kurt Cobain About a Son

however, the above doc did primarily utilize the artist's recorded tapes from an interview for a book. so, you will somehow have to access something which gives the artist a voice. i'm sure you'll think of something creative...


Neil Garrett
Mon 11 Aug 2008Link

Hi all,
I'm filming a low budget community project (uk) over the next couple of weeks some of which will involve shooting teenagers (sadly only with a camera) at a club they attend. As most of them will be under 16, this puts me on tricky ground with the release forms. I need parental consent, but it's unlikely any of the parents will come to the club during filming. I'm a bit nervous at the prospect of say, giving each kid a release form and self addressed envelope and relying on them to return them, and there's no way of knowing or finding out who'll be attending in advance.
Should I be worried about this or just go ahead and shoot? Do I have to get release forms even for kids who'll just be wallpaper?


Mark Barroso
Tue 12 Aug 2008Link

Neil:
Laws are country-specific, so us Yanks can't tell you squat. That said, I'll tell you my thoughts anyway (us Yanks are like that).

I'm assuming you can't contact parents ahead of time and are shooting kids who just happen to show up. If it were me, I would demand from the kids the phone number of their guardian and call them on the spot. After getting a verbal release from mum, I'd tell her you need to get all this in writing and that she will have to sign a release and get her address.

Know going into it that x percent of the kids you shoot will be unusable because their parent never followed up by mailing you the release.


Andrew David Watson
Tue 12 Aug 2008Link

What type of club is this? A chess club? A music Club? Will the kids be getting picked up by their parents at the end? Will you be interviewing the kids or will they just be background? Thats a tough situation.


Neil Garrett
Wed 13 Aug 2008Link

It's a computer game tournament organised by a local library. I think the age range is gonna be quite broad so I'm assuming a fair number of kids will be making their own way there and back. The sequence ain't gonna live or die on whether I get interviews with them, but it would be nice to get some reaction – only with kids who I've got cast iron consent to use though!

-And Mark, thanks for the advice about getting verbal releases. I think thats probably a good place to start!

Cheers


Roderick Taylor
Wed 13 Aug 2008Link

Hey Neil,

I'm not sure how it works in the UK, nor am I really sure how it works in my own country (Canada), as the lawyers like to debate these issues to the end of time. That said, my understanding of it is this. Anyone can film anything in a public forum. Where you may be sued is if you use that public footage in a manner that could be construed as defamation of character. For example, if I'm making a video about prostitution and I videotape women waiting for the bus or teenage males cruising in their cars on main street, and I use that footage as b-roll in my film, but in such a way that those persons are depicted as prostitutes or 'john's', it would be pretty good grounds for a defamation of character lawsuit laid against me. If I was actually filming prostitutes and 'john's' cruising around the red light area of my city, and I disguised their faces in final production, I'd be minimizing the chances of a lawsuit, as I've eliminated a great deal of possibility for someone's character to be defamated.

At the end of the day however, anyone can sue anyone for anything. All you have to do is file a writ in a civil court. So, there is no 100% protection from a law suit. What you can protect yourself from is the credibility of the plaintiff's lawsuit.

If you are filming people in a private setting, such as a library, you will likely need permission from the library to do so. The library will then probably put up a poster that warns people of the shooting and gives them the option to inform you if they don't want to be captured in your film.

As for the 16-year-olds and their consent. I think it depends on two factors; the age of majority in the UK, and wheter or not you have something like an Infants Act in the UK. The Infants Act in Canada allows counsellors to provide their services to children under the age of majority, without consent from their parents, provided that the counsellor considers the child to be old enough to fully understand the consequences of such services. Maybe the UK has a law like that but pertaining to the rights of a child to access any kind of service.

Those are just my thoughts

Take Care,


Neil Garrett
Thu 14 Aug 2008Link

Well just got back from the filming and wouldn't you know it, the God of Production was smiling down on me. All but one of the kids had parents drifting in and out, all perfectly happy to have the kiddywinks on camera. Even the mum who wasn't there gave verbal consent over the phone and has agreed to sign the release I'm sending her.

Now I just need to know whether I can use cutaways of the TV screen showing the computer games being played, or whether that breaches uk copyright. Anyone?


Mike Mossey
Fri 15 Aug 2008Link

Do most people start their own company as a documentary filmmaker or can you just do business as yourself?
Does anyone know of any resources that outline the steps for creating a small-scale Doc-film business?
I am new to this. Thanks.


Doug Block
Fri 15 Aug 2008Link

Mike, I did business as myself (using a DBA) for quite a while. Once I started raising significant money for my first doc I incorporated. I think that's a pretty common way to go.


Skyler Buffmeyer
Sun 17 Aug 2008Link

hi!
i am interested in making my own doc and was wondering if there was a good editing program out there that is somewhat reasonable in the price and is not to complicated.
thank you :)


Christopher Wong
Sun 17 Aug 2008Link

welcome skyler...

there are a few decent editing programs out there, but the most common one is Final Cut Pro (FCP). A cheaper version of the same thing is Final Cut Express (FCE). But both of these programs only work with a Mac. (Speaking of which, iMovie comes absolutely free of charge with the Mac, and is a very handy program for beginners.)

if you have a PC, there are a myriad of options, the most popular of which are Avid and Adobe Premiere. unless you are wanting to be a professional editor, Avid is probably too expensive for you and requires too much of a learning curve. Adobe Premiere is easy to learn and widely used but not so much by documentary filmmakers.

all in all, if you can afford it, get the cheapest new Mac you can get, and start editing with iMovie. after a month or so of practice, then shell out the few hundred bucks for FCE. when you have a project that's actually fit for broadcast, upgrade to FCP.


Joe Moulins
Sun 17 Aug 2008Link

It's been a long time since I checked, but doesn't Avid have a free version for Windows and Mac?

(three minute later)

I guess not

Edited Sun 17 Aug 2008 by Joe Moulins

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