once again, very helpful.
once again, very helpful.
The purpose of a tape is to allow distributors
to say we saw that - it's no good. You
need to take the trailer to a market, show
em that only, and make a deal or not. No
deal no show. The alternative is to take
the completed doc to an A list festival
and win a prize. Then let them approach
you with a deal.
Sending tapes out is the kiss of DEATH!
I'm just curious if the other 'working pros' out there agree with
this Statement of Robert's - and Robert, if you could back this up
with some examples or experience.
As someone who has made a few films, but hasn't had much
luck with broadcast, I'm still mystified by this idea. Why would a
broadcaster agree to buy a film if they haven't seen more than a
sometimes the terms can get confused. A trailer is basically a minute
or two long. A sample can be anywhere from a few minutes to, well,
almost any length. I helped produce a doc called "Silverlake Life"
and the sample was almost a half-hour. And very effective, too.
If you have a contact or previous experience with a broadcaster,
sending a cassette out is perfectly fine. If you don't, then a market
like the IFP's is better. But there aren't many like them out there.
For confirmation please check a recent issue of the Independent Film
& Video Monthly - I think Dec/Jan with the Open City folks on the
cover. Jason and Joanna Kliot.
they wrote a piece about distribution that confirmed everything I've
learned and made the points i posted.
Is it necessary to secure "life story rights" for a documentary?
Is it ever kosher to pay a subject for appearing in a doc? The
subject of my film feels he needs some kind of compensation, beyond
publicity-- He also needs the money, which I totally understand.
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks--
most. What can and does happen is if the project is successful, the
participants share in the wealth, e.g., hoop dreams - the players
and parents received a share of the pie.
It's a very good idea to secure "life rights" because Small Wonders
becaming Playing with Strings with Meryl Streep and the life rights
holder benefited from Hollywood's interest after the doc was
profits. Not that docs make profits ;-)
filmmakers need to get from their subjects?
of the main character(s) in your doc, which are nice for you to secure
in writing in case someone wants to make a fiction film based on their
lives after seeing the documentary.
Not always easy to get. It brings up possible issues of the subjects
feeling exploited, so you should tread carefully and find out from an
entertainment lawyer how to go about it. Also, wouldn't do it unless
you feel your character and his or her situation is so compelling that
Hollywood is sure to come calling.
the beginning stages of production, so I won't deal with this until
further down the road. Speaking of an entertainment lawyer, is there
a difference between an entertainment lawyer and a producer's rep?
Also, is this the place on D-Word where I can ask specific questions
about my film-in-progress? This is my first film.
out there doing both, but generally an entertainment lawyer is paid by
the hour and a producer's rep gets a percentage of any distribution
advance and, depending, other sales.
i am thinking of making a doc, i have very limited resources
in terms of money.just curious what is fair compensation for a main
character(s) in terms of percentages if the film makes any money?
subjects a profit share. some give up to 50%. it all depends on your
relationship to the subjects, what they want, what you want to give,
just make it clear to them that the chances of making any profit is
sharing it! Which would you advise for someone like me? An
entertainment lawyer or a producer's rep?
just received a development grant. Congratulations! That's
confident your film will start a bidding war at sundance next year.
then, hey, give me a call ;-)
very involved with AIVF over the years and is very sympathetic to
indie filmmakers. Say hi from me.
demo reel and she was extremely helpful and knowledgable. I saw that
you mentioned her in this "Mentoring Room", and I trust your
referrals. She made some terrific suggestions and she's also
extremely nice. You are very hooked in to the documentary film scene
and are a wealth of knowledge. As I've mentioned,I'm making my first
film and I find your suggestions and this whole doc film site an
invaluable resource. (For other people reading this I am not related
to Doug, and I'm not earning any extra income from him for my
feedback, which he didn't ask for.)
First time filmmaker here, I want to begin shooting a documentary
about a club and the exotic dancers who work in the club, is there
any legal protocal I should follow in terms of releases, life story
rights, and location releases? Can anyone also recommend a book or
online website that would have similar legal contracts and releases?
Any info from you pro's would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in
Mark Litwak's website: http://marklitwak.com. Get releases from
everyone you can, including patrons whose faces are recognizable (good
luck!). Get a release from the club, absolutely. As for life rights,
it seems premature. I'd deal with that a little later down the line -
might spook your subject(s) unnecessarily.
Doug, I am not her. I am a first-time doc filmmaker - I wish I can
claim her experience instead of her name.
Thanks again for your help. I am certain that my questions will be
posting frequently over the next several weeks as I embark on this
storytelling journey. :)
do you need to get/do to use an artists music in your film? Thanks!
about music clearances: http://www.holytoledo.com/clear_music.htm
I came across this forum whilst looking for information
on successfully producing/directing my first doco. I may have the
opportunity to film a doco and I'm really not sure where to start.
Can anyone please tell me where do I start first. I have the subject
and I have written down a few notes but that's all I've done.
Any help would be appreciated.
are planning to have a year long awareness campaign in all areas of
of media, so I thought why not a documentary! It will give me a
chance to get my feet wet, and have a credit etc.
Hope that helps you Ben.
and diving right in.
ignorance is bliss ;-)
and I am a published writer as well as a classically trained pianist.
It would appear that anything I do in the arts I do it to perfection,
so I believe the trend will continue whilst filming this documentary.
The organisation I'm involved in, has access to the right people in
the media, so I thought why not take advantage. I will have access to
equiptment as well as a facility. I will certainly post regularly now
that I hvae found this site.
This is GREAT!!!
Thanks for all and future help.
This is my first posting to the board though I've been reading it for a few
weeks now. First, Doug, your advice here is very helpful, especially for us
newbies (or semi-newbie in this case). Thanks.
My question is: I just finished a 15-minute sample tape/trailer for a
documentary I've been working on. It's about a failed Hollywood film
production that wound up in the hands of the CIA. There's a great story
behind it and I think this has good commercial potential. I'd like to target
more commercial funding sources than grant organizations. But I'm a little
stuck as to how to do this. How do you market a sample tape
around for broadcast/theatrical (i.e., commercial vs. grant) production money?
Where do I go? And would a producer's rep help in this early stage?
Thanks for any and all advice.
be perfect for a project like yours. The application deadline is
coming up soon, too:
But do they take sample tapes/trailers rather than works-in-progress? Also,
do you get a guaranteed audience with market people? Or is it luck of the
where they put their emphasis.
As far as guaranteed audiences, there are never guarantees. You'll
have to work your little fanny off to get their fannies in the seats.
If you do a google search, or look closely at the IFP's website, I'm
sure there are numerous articles that have been written over the years
about how to "work" the market.
Lots of luck.
Express. I am planning to shoot only on an XL1s and am about to
purchase software. The savings on Express would really help but am I
going to regret it later?
Thanks in advance, this is such a helpful site!
But both are fine programs that you won't regret using.
Avid's FreeDV. More info at http://www.apple.com/finalcutexpress/ ...
they could have chosen a less confusing name, though.
have been educating myself quite a bit with all the terrific info on
this forum. Many thanks to all who contribute to this forum and those
who take their time to give advice.
Now, I need a little guidance myself, if you don't mind. My partners
and I had an idea for a documentary. I don't want to go into it too
much, but the subject was a French athlete who is virtually unknown
in the states. We contacted her American agent with the proposal and
the agent requested we send a resume of ourselves with a description
of the project, which we kept pretty general. This morning we got
the call and were told that she had already committed to another
documentary. Needless to say, I'm pretty disappointed. We already
had private funding and a crew in place.
Do I think that she's involved in another documentary? Highly
unlikely. Do I think the agent talked with her about this project?
Highly unlikely. The agent admitted she really doesn't deal with
her. Perhaps, the agent contacted her people in France and they
turned it down. I really don't know. Sorry, I'm babbling. I really
felt this could have been an unique and entertaining project. Could
it be that we were not award-winning docu filmmakers? I don't know.
Our backgrounds are in funding, producing, directing and writing
small indy and short films. Though, I doubt that HBO, BBC, etc. are
knocking down her door.
I could go on and on, but this message is long enough. Here's my
question? Has the fat lady sung yet? Should we contact her agent in
France? Should we try to gain contact with the athlete and pitch to
her directly? I've met her before and she seems very personable.
Any advice to this problem would be greatly appreciated!!
gonna have a very short career as a documentary filmmaker. A no means
maybe. Or try again later. Or try again in a different way.
I'd try to get to the athlete directly. Use your ingenuity, your
charm and your passion for the film. Be honest and sincere. And
don't even think of giving up so easily.
You may not be a known quantity as a doc filmmaker but you do make
the grade in the funding category. Care to fund-raise for a known
i'm a new member to the forums... been reading a lot of the
posts... and very happy to be a part. as a new shooter/editor i've
happened upon some opportunities to document weddings and
am interested in exploring this.
the "clients" are interested in verite style, natural sound... i share
this sensibility and am excited about doing it.. but would love to
hear from others with experience doing this type of thing... how
they approach the day... interact w/ guests, etc. any advice would
be greatly appreciated... i've picked up a few things... and
purchased 83 min dv stock for the ceremony...(hope that's long
enough) have a backup camera and batteries just in case... love
to hear some thoughts... many thanks
good way to get doc shooting experience... and also pay some
bills... must be some nervous people... i guess remaining calm
I've been working in the advertising industry for a couple of years...
a thankless job. Anyway I have the opportunity to produce a
documantary that I think is going to make a difference to my country.
How and where do I go to learn about the in's and out's of funding,
distribution and selling a documantary to broadcasters around the world.
Hope you can help.
conference here on Selling in the International Marketplace:
Sounds like an interesting project. Would love to know more about
these singers (what country?)
I think your biggest challenge coming from a radio background is
making your story visual enough and also thinking about length and
pacing (I am not sure what sort of programs you have been doing for
radio; with the exception of things like SOUNDPRINT, it seems to me,
most radio documentaries are 7 minutes or shorter -- your film sounds
like it could be at least 1/2 hour or maybe even an hour).
While you may have in mind to use a narrator, avoid a narrator, or
bring yourself in as a character/"host", you could probably shoot for
all three possibilities. For instance, if you want to incorporate
the historical context of their music, you should ask them about it
so that you have the potential to use their own words if you decide
to forego traditional narration. Similarly, you may want to make
sure you are getting footage and/or commentary of yourself while you
are in the region filming them. I am currently producing a film that
wasn't originally intended to have the director as a character, but
it has evolved that way -- thankfully, we had a little bit of footage
of him there, but could have used way more.
The fact that you mention that the singers come from a beautiful
place may help a bit. The place probably figures prominently in
their songs and could help illustrate them. Also you say some of
these folks are real characters. So make sure those characters are
reflected on screen. Is the film only about the music or is it
really about the people who choose to keep up the life of the music?
Focus on a few of the most interesting characters and make sure to
include some footage of them in their daily life, as well as
singing. Whether you choose to do formal interviews is up to you --
some filmmakers prefer to shoot everything verite and people will
sort of open up about their lives at some point. Others prefer to
combine formal sit-down interviews with b-roll footage. Take a look
at other films on similar subjects so you can get a sense of
different ways of approaching the same material.
As far as whether to do it in English or in another language, you
probably want to think about where you plan to try to market the
film. Even on public TV, it is still difficult to get a subtitled
documentary on TV (in the U.S. anyway). We're trying with our
project, but it will still be a major handicap for us. On the other
hand, if the language is intrinsic to the music, then you might want
to make the decision to keep it. Do your subjects speak English -
i.e., would you want to interview them in English? I would recommend
if you do interviews to do them in whatever language they are most
comfortable speaking from the heart. You could always opt to do
English voiceovers later.
Just a few thoughts.
Thanks so much for your thoughtful consideration of my questions.
I like the idea of leaving my options open -- the same thing happens
in radio -- ex., sometimes you wish you'd asked the questions on
tape, as their answers don't always end up being stand-alone. Might
incorporate athird party to be 'chatting' to the singers. But must
pick the right one from the start...
I hate being onscreen -- I bet many folks do, to - so I am reluctant
to go that route although some say I should. I also dislike the idea
of narration in this case. Although I know it could work in some
cases -- maybe in a personal doc.
My singers speak English and their own language but I feel since it
is a dying, minority language you don't often get to hear, and the
songs are in this lang., it's important to hear it on screen. I was
thinking of doing my interviews in english, then repeat part of them
in the other language, in order to intercut the interview for the
film. i think that would give a good flavour, without alienating
In Europe apparently they must overdub everything anyway so... that's
a whole other issue i guess.
I like the verite approach but i think I need a camerman to help me
do that right. whoa, a lot to think abotu but thanks very much.
yes, sorry, I'm being a bit vague about details as I know this is a
public forum so anyone could read it. My friend worked for a long
time on a film and did some shooting, was in the middle of pitching,
etc, and then found out other people were doing the same project.
not sure how she will resolve this but it was a huge blow to her.
I guess there can always be different interpretations etc but it is
a drag if they happen at the same time.
Is there a website/organization that keeps track of films in
I thought this was referred to in another thread but have been unable
to find the answer. If anyone knows about this I would be very
much about someone stealing your idea. Chances are, someone else
could be doing a similar project but if you have particular people
who really stand out, it's not something you should fret over.
Dubbing in Europe varies country to country. Some countries actually
prefer subtitles. Of course, if they speak a very pronounced
regional dialect of English, you may need English subtitles for some
If this is your first doc and you want the verite approach, you are
right that you may want to work with an experienced cameraperson.
However, if you are still at the fundraising stage and you live near
your subjects, there's no reason you can't do some shooting on your
own just to give potential funders the flavor of your subjects and
how they are on-camera (sometimes people -- even performers -- may be
comfy with a mic but clam up with camera, so you'll want to know that
as you choose who your main subjects will be).
only to show people a taste of what it might look like.
But I have zero camera experience so... not sure if it will be
usable. I'm going to try anyway, this weekend.
I have actually thought myself, that I might need english subtitles
for the english! LOL!
I think someone else might be doing something involved with the same
community, but with a very different focus to it. That one other
project I can handle, but any more than that and I'll feel pretty
laws for documentaries. When I started shooting my documentary I
didn't have a clue, I just shot it as it happened. In some footage
there is music on the radio or a tv playing in background. I need to
know what I can or cannot legally use.
thanks in advance for your help
I'm writing in regard to my documentary film URK.
(www.storytellerinc.com/urk) It was recently nominated for the 2003
IDA Pare Lorentz Award. It looks like I'm about to sign a deal with a
distributor at the beginning of next week. I've never done this
before, and I have a few questions.
1- Do I need to get a lawyer to help negotiate the contract? Are
there other resources which could help me educate myself to handle
negotiating the contract?
2- I am eager to sign ASAP, because the distributor is prepared to
take the film to MIPCOM next month. Is this a good idea, or should I
not rush into it simply in order to make it to the market?
Thanks for your advice.
MIPCOM is nice but don't settle for something because there's a
deadline. In fact, this distributor probably won't be able to
properly promote your film there if you sign at the last moment, so it
might not be helpful.
news to be added. I have found the material through VMS (Video Monitoring
Services) here in LA but as it turns out they sell it for research only. Does
anyone know the parameters of usage os such material.
I'm calling the networks now but in the meantime wanted to see if anyone had
similar experiences with this specifically in the US.
Thanks for any feedback!
footage. If they operate like national news archives, they would
probably charge you a fee for a screener tape (which you may not need
if you can a tape for free through VMS and decide exactly which
footage you need). Then you would need to pay a licensing fee (which
could vary depending on what kind of rights you need -- is this just
for festivals or small scale screenings, educational market or for
broadcast, theatrical release or home video? Sometimes you can
negotiate multi-level rights -- cheapest, most limited now with
potential to upgrade to broader rights later. I haven't worked yet
with local networks, but national broadcasters generally charge
anywhere from $10-50/second often with a 30-second minimum (some
places may also charge on a per cut basis). If anchors or reporters
are on screen, there may also be some permission/license
considerations for them.
This is a project for Channel 4 in the UK.
I have some of those questions you probably hear a million times.
I'm working on a doc focusing on the media. we're interviewing and
taping the activities of reporters and producers in the field, who
agree to our presence. some work for local stations, others for
networks. the big question: do we need to get performance releases
from everyone we shoot? or is getting them on tape agreeing to talk
enough? what about the reporters and producers we shoot from afar?
they are public people working in a public area, do we need to get
permission to use video of them?
at this point, we don't have a distribution deal, so i can't say for
sure how the footage will be used... but this will be a
serious "news" piece... how worried do we have to be about getting
any advice would be appreciated...thanks...Kevin
and get releases from anyone you've interviewed and anyone who is
speaking on camera in any kind of prominent way. I wouldn't bother
with reporters from afar (but I'm not an entertainment lawyer).
Releases are less about fear of lawsuits than for E&O insurance that
any broadcaster or distributor would demand before taking on your
embarassed asking about it. But seeing i'm a newbie and all, i'd like
to ask about performative docus. I've read stuff written about it but
i still don't get how it's different from the other
established "genres" of docus (i.e. verite, direct cinema, etc.)
And what exactly is the "performative" element? furthermore, if i may
add another question, are there certain subjects that are
particularly suited for a performative docu? Hope you guys can help
me out. Thanks! :-)
Never heard of performative docs. Have heard of performance docs -
that would be all those shows about musicians.
care to give us the definition you've read so perhaps we can figure
I will say that most of the writing about film, filmmaking,
documentaries, and the rest is mostly horse shit.
In my presentation post I have mentioned needing help with research.
In fact I am looking for people who are passionate about collecting
garden gnomes and also for people who snatch them from their homes.
I'd like to make a documentary on this subject and would like to
investigate further. So far, I'm sorry to say, I've met only with
lunatics who took the whole thing very lightheartedly and seemed to
steal the dwarves out of boredom. I know there must be something more
Can anyone help?
Thank you very much.
des Nains de Jardin", aren't you?
similar project on garden gnome world travellers? Does she check in
here at the public forum? If not, do a search for her on the handy-
dandy search tool below and you can find her e-mail address.
of these fronts in Europe but they're not too collaborative.
For Erica. Hi Erica! I'll search for the film-maker you mentioned.
have my question answered so I figured I would post it.
I'm considering doing a no-budget doc on a local community, focusing
mostly on people who I know pretty well from my place of employment
(they're customers at the dump where I work) and I want to make sure
that they feel involved and not taken advantage of or anything like that.
So in order to do that I need releases of course. So my question is
basically, any advice on where to get sample releases or general
advice on writting them? I'm too poor to deal with a lawyer and due
to the small scale of the subject and production, and the fact that I
know everyone it would seem a bit gratuitous.
I've never had a reason to use releases for my previous projects (even
smaller scale student films nobody will ever see) but I would plan on
submitting this at least to my local film festival next year
(Northampton Independent Film Fest) and i wanna do everything nice and
Although I haven't used releases before I know the basic idea, just
want to make sure I don't exclude any legal mumbo-jumbo that needs to
be in there.
Also if it makes any difference I would like to keep the releases as
simple as possible to read/understand because more than a few of the
people who would be in the film are neigh-illiterate.
I assume there isn't any particular format or standard for releases as
they're pretty much a formality, but figured I would solicit any
advice from here just in case there's something i should know).
Feel free to e-mail me if you would like a sample plain-language
question on including yourself as a documentarist in your d-film. I
did read the conference about personal documentary but it was
slightly different from what we (my sister co-documentarist and me)
want to do.
We are not making a personal documentary, but a doc about a young
danish filmmaker trying to get his second short film finished and
We are almost finished filming. Thursday we go to Danmark for the
last shots; the premiere, and some last interviews. It has been a
struggle and we want to do the editing right. We have good material
but we have to make some important choices now. So here are some
questions we hope to get answered before we start editing.
We are friends of the director and the leadactor. Besides filming we
also helped out with some pre-productionwork for the film and
functioned as mental support for our friends sometimes. I had great
trouble changing role but managed it in the end.
Thing is if you look at the group we were part of it. For example;
To get the group-atmosphere we want to include some scenes we came
to calling the 'dinertabletalks'. We are present at these
dinertabletalks and in shot sometimes. At one point when things
almost got out of hand we let the producer know we were worried
about one of our friends which resulted in her cancelling another
Our idea about this is that we should show we were there for the
sake of pursuing truth and all. On the other hand it might cost us
all the credibility we have, if we show our own involvement. Our
question is should we edit this thing around us or not. Personally
we like the idea of subtly including ourselves but we also wonder if
that is not a trap every documentarist falls in. In other words are
we making a beginnersmistake?
Another question concerns language. We and the leadactor of the film
are dutch, the rest of the crew is Danish. The language on set was
mostly English, but in heated moments or sometimes off-set they
changed into Danish. We have someone to translate it so that is not
a problem. We decided to interview the dutch-speaking guy in Dutch
because we thought it would look strange to have a dutch person
speak English in a dutch documentary. Only now we have three
languages in what is gonna be a 30 min. documentary. We are afraid
this will cause confusion. Can anyone tell if this fear is justified
and if so what we can do about it? (The doc is also getting an
Since this is our final project of our study journalism we have to
write an essay as well. We chose to explore the presence of the
documentarist in the documentary. How far can you go, how far should
you go, what are valid reasons, what are the effects, etc. Can
anyone tell us where we can find in-depth information and examples
of this? We have searched the net, and found this forum
A last question. We want to include a scene in which our subject
watches his short with a professional (director, teacher etc.) We
had arranged someone from the Danish filmacademy but she suddenly
changed her mind. Peter Aelbeck agreed to watch it but will only
know after seeing it if he has something to say about it. (he is a
producer and maybe not the best person to comment on the film) We
tried most Danish directors but they all said no. Does anyone have
an idea of who we can try? We are gonna call the academy again, but
time is getting short to arrange this.
Thanks for your time.